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Contributing Member
C Broad Arrow marking on REL scopes
Has anyone seen an example of an REL scope with a C- Broad Arrow stamping on it?
Everything I see is Broad Arrow marked only.
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02-10-2015 06:43 PM
# ADS
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Advisory Panel
They don't seem to have been, even the MkIA, Mk4, TP have Broad arrows:
The REL No32MkI
The REL C.No32MkIA was marked with CGB coding, no broad arrow...
The Lyman No32MKI T.P. was marked with a broad arrow
The REL No32MkII was marked with a broad arrow
The REL C.No32Mk3 was marked with a broad arrow
The REL C.No32Mk4 (C.No67MkI) was marked with a broad arrow
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Advisory Panel
Supplied to the UK and then doled out to Canadian
Army from there. Dumb IMO, but that's the way it happened. Not much was doled out either: the 1st Canadian Division apparently went to Italy with 34 P14s fitted with WWI Warner & Swasey scopes. They may have had some No4(T)'s by then, but I haven't seen any evidence of that yet. Presumably they got some issued when they got to Italy. According to "Without Warning" the P14s were used "throughout the Italian campaign". If they'd been up to strength on No4(T)s they wouldn't have taken the P14s as the 2nd and 3rd Divisions, still in England, were asked to turn theirs in in late 1943 and as mentioned elsewhere, had their full allocation of No4(T)s by January 1944.
Last edited by Surpmil; 02-18-2015 at 10:33 PM.
“There are invisible rulers who control the destinies of millions. It is not generally realized to what extent the words and actions of our most influential public men are dictated by shrewd persons operating behind the scenes.”
Edward Bernays, 1928
Much changes, much remains the same. 
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A Mk1 cocking piece isn't necessarily indicative of an early trials rifle as they were made by Singer early into standard No4 Mk1 production
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Advisory Panel
Not to mention the early Maltbys with MkI cocking pieces.
Many years ago Peter you mentioned a trials No4(T) used as a grave marker in Italy; I forget the name of the book; but there are a few photos of trials No4(T)s in Italy around; I think we posted one here not long ago.
This is the photo you're referring to Colin?
From the fluted rear handguard I'm guessing that was not a trials rifle. I can't see the magazine cutoff either. Early rifle though from the MkI forend isn't it?
Not exactly a sniper in appearance is he? Do you know anything about how organized sniping was in the SHoC at that time?
“There are invisible rulers who control the destinies of millions. It is not generally realized to what extent the words and actions of our most influential public men are dictated by shrewd persons operating behind the scenes.”
Edward Bernays, 1928
Much changes, much remains the same.
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Contributing Member
Yes that is the photo I was referring to.
Peter is right that Mk. I cocking piece is not a solid indication as these were used on several early rifles (Trials, Long Branch, Stevens-Savage etc.). The cocking piece could also be switched at any time. A high resolution version of the photo might reveal some more clues re: the rifle.
I have not come across any info on the Seaforth sniping in WWII and this is the only photo I have seen of a Seaforth sniper. At that time the norm was 8 snipers per infantry battalion I believe.
As far as looking like a sniper ... in training they did a lot of gillie suit type training but photos show that in action snipers tended to travel light. There is a photo of a group of snipers from the Royal 22nd Regiment walking down a road in Italy towards the camera. They are dressed very casually. Remember that the photo of the Seaforth sniper is likely posed in a safe area. A wise sniper of course would not wear an ungarnished helmet while sniping.
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The book was called 'The Road to Rome'. It was a pictorially heavy book about A4 size and you'd have to look hard to see the body pads.
The dress was always a matter for the men of course. Even today. The favourite in summer 44 Europe was denim trousers, PT shoes, loose battle-dress top over which was a large cape-like camouflaged hessian, well....., cape or a smock. And apparently, a thing called a 'SATCHEL, signal' that was carried like a school satchel into which you could fit most things that you needed to carry. A cape could cover you if need be and look like just another pile of garbage under a tree or against a wall
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Advisory Panel
The regimental war diary would probably contain info that would at least suggest how sniping was organized. I suspect as in WWI, much depended on the attitude of the OC.
“There are invisible rulers who control the destinies of millions. It is not generally realized to what extent the words and actions of our most influential public men are dictated by shrewd persons operating behind the scenes.”
Edward Bernays, 1928
Much changes, much remains the same.
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Contributing Member
Peter: "And apparently, a thing called a 'SATCHEL, signal' that was carried like a school satchel into which you could fit most things that you needed to carry."
I imagine it is one of these satchels:
Attachment 60343
They are truly great bits of kit, still available, and since I am feeling generous I'll tell you where to get one:
Vintage / Collectors' items : WEBBING: Satchel. Signals. Patt. 37. Khaki.
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