As-issued Lithgow #3 - or #3*

[bob4wd]

Attached are (or should be!) some pics of an old SMLE I've had for 30 years or more. It's really beat-up, obviously spent some time in a sharp-toothed vise at some point, but except for a long crack on the bottom of the forend, is pretty sound. All numbers match, including the buttstock. Now that I've learned a thing or two (but nowhere's near enough) about milsurps, I have a couple of questions for the experts.
Is it a #3 or is it a #3*? It's been both, which one is it now? Should it have a magazine cutoff?
What do you make of the notches cut in the bottom of the stock? Kills? Handling dings?
Thanks all.
Ok, that didn't work.
Moderator- you want to delete this while I figure out my next move!

Information

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[browningautorifle]

Here's a set of Pics for Bob4wd...

[Aussie48]

OK the receiver was manufactured in 1919 as a No 1 Mk 3* at some stage it was renumbered A63407 if you look closely it's original number is below the current one, my old eyes can't make it out. Rifles made in 1918 -1919 equalled 42,129 and 1919 - 1920 equalled 25,570. If you remove the top wood behind the rear sight, you will find the date of the re-barrel or the original barrel number. I would suggest it was taken out of store and allocated to the 2nd Military District (New South Wales) Citizen Military Forces as you can see on the receiver and not so clearly on the butt, this is probably when it was re-barreld (if it was) and downgraded to a No 1 Mk 3. The notched under the fore end would be some soldier who wanted a better grip on the rifle no other reason.

Does it have the magazine cut off plate slot in the side of the receiver?

Dick

[muffett.2008]

It does have the cutoff slot, and the number on top of the action is not the serial number, it is located lower below the A prefix.
Bob, can you give me the Year on the wrist, Serial number and barrel date for the Lithgow Survey, it would be most appreciated.

[CINDERS]

Hi Aus48 ~just curious that my 5MD '16 Lithgow does not have the A prefix I thought the top number was the rack no. mine is placed in the 37 refurb to the H barrel.
And once again that ? stamp still alludes definition, it is not a heart shape and not a P either I have read the broad arrow stampings by Skennerton and no reference there either.
So anyone know what the definition is.....good to see another Lithgow surface for the survey.

[RobD]

You may get some improvement in the vice marks and other dings using this method:
How do you steam out dings and dents from walnut stocks?
Rob

[Aussie48]

Hi Cinders,

That question mark has me buggered as I can't find anything on it either. You 1916 won't have an A in the Serial Number as they didn't start using Alpha numerics until late 1918.
Dick

[Homer]

Yes it hasn't been re serial numbered. The top number is the military district number that was applied when it was issued to 2MD.

Never heard "downgraded to a No1 MkIII" before.

I'm curious, us it a 1918 or 1919 dated action?

[bob4wd]

It does have the cutoff slot, and the number on top of the action is not the serial number, it is located lower below the A prefix.
Bob, can you give me the Year on the wrist, Serial number and barrel date for the Lithgow Survey, it would be most appreciated.

Serial number same as the rest of the rifle, A10198. Date is 1918, same as the wrist. Hope this helps some.

---------- Post added at 09:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:59 PM ----------

OK the receiver was manufactured in 1919 as a No 1 Mk 3* at some stage it was renumbered A63407 if you look closely it's original number is below the current one, my old eyes can't make it out. Rifles made in 1918 -1919 equalled 42,129 and 1919 - 1920 equalled 25,570. If you remove the top wood behind the rear sight, you will find the date of the re-barrel or the original barrel number. I would suggest it was taken out of store and allocated to the 2nd Military District (New South Wales) Citizen Military Forces as you can see on the receiver and not so clearly on the butt, this is probably when it was re-barreld (if it was) and downgraded to a No 1 Mk 3. The notched under the fore end would be some soldier who wanted a better grip on the rifle no other reason.

Does it have the magazine cut off plate slot in the side of the receiver?

Dick

Dick-
Yes it does have the cut off slot, but no plate. Which is really my original quandary, since it was apparently changed to a mo.3, no star, so should the cutoff plate be present?
The notches are under the butt-stock, not the fore end, nowhere near a gripping surface.
BTW, it also has HV on the barrel, just behind the rear sight, and also on the stock. The stock has a bucket-load of stamps, including rack number and a date (?) of 5 over 19.

[Homer]

The 5/19 date is the date the rifle was either delivered to stores, or the 2nd MD, from the factory. Its never been really clear to me which, although I've noted the date is usually always present with the Military district stamps but not on rifles I've seen without MD stamps, so I assumed the date is when it was issued to the states.
A cutoff wouldn't make it wrong but I don't think it would necessarily make it right either. Vast numbers of Lithgows, refurbed or other, still exist as mkIII's with no star, and without the cutoff, so I don't think the factory or repair shops were too worried about changing the nomenclature to MkIII* when the cutoff was removed during or after WW2. I think the majority of lithgows you see with cutoffs these days, were installed by enthusiast. That's all just my own view gents.