SMLE trade rifle (need some guru help)

[Cdn303]

Hi, I've been trolling around on here for quite a while and raiding the Knowledge Library, but I've pick up something that is outside of my 'comfort zone'. I've copied this post that I had on CGN. I have changed it a litte.

I have the makings of a good collection of enfields but at the gun shop the other day I picked up what I thought was another No1MkIII (no star). It has the cut off, the windage adjustable rear sight, the forestock is kaput, but I got it to have as a restoration project, so it will be getting a full length one anyhow. All of the following pictures were taken prior to cleaning

Here she is.




(I know, someone has put the sight protector on backwards)

At the shop I noticed the big things, like the crack, and that none of the numbers match. The bolt, receiver, barrel, and rear sight all have different numbers. Good news is, the bore is in fairly good shape, there are a few little pits, about a dozen. Also before disassembly I checked the headspace and it checks out and the crown is good too.

Now we get deeper into things. The RH wrist has the GR below the crown and BSA Co below that. There is no date stamp, or SMLE MkIII stamp. On the top of the receiver “A.G. Parker & Co. Ltd Birmingham”, and on the knox form, “AGA Ball Burnished”. (Later found out from smellie what ball burnished means)




I see that this is starting to get long, so I’ll continue with a bunch of pictures and captions, and finish with a paragraph or two.


The safety catch spring is missing.

I am not sure why the rear trigger guard screw is so long, a proper one is on the list. (edit I know now, read at bottom)

This is the inner band screw and what I thought was the spring, but it turns out that it is a piece of wire wrapped around the screw. (Again, new one on the list)


These are of two pieces of the stock broken off of the stock and stuck in the receiver. (nice and solid draws )

And back on the stock.



The reinforce at the back of the stock in gone, but the more interesting thing is that the stock bolt does not have a squared end. I thought they are supposed to. I guess whomever bubba’d this thought that they knew more than Mr Lee and Mr Speed and ground that off

There is a whole manner of proof marks and such, rather than post them here is a link to my photobucket page. http://s1204.photobucket.com/albums/...cpZZ2QQtppZZ20

Here it is cleaned up. I left the forestock off, as it was damaged (see above) and the bearing surfaces were no longer there.






So what I have learned is that this was most likely a trade rifle, made at BSA and sold through AG Parker & Co (thanks smellie). I've also learned that the long rear trigger guard screw and the lack of the safety spring, is that out there somewhere, there is a target sight missing a rifle.

My intensions are to gather the necessary pieces and give her some dignity back. The biggest road block that I has run up against is how it should be done. Do I put it back to MkIII specs? or MkIII*? or however I see fit?

I'd like to do the full MkIII specs with volley sights and all, but I also want to propery, so, if that is incorrect I'd do it the correct way. I also want to (down the road) find and get a target sight (probably a PH model 'Plus 5' or model 5A). I realize that I have just created two different paths, but I am open to some input. (and pictures of a target rifle would be a HUGE plus)

I am also curious as to the year that this would have be manufactured. As stated above, there is no date stamp. All I have to go by is the date range that the serial numbers were produced. As it stands, I have a range of dates from 1907 to 1918. Here is the breakdown with the factories that used the particular letter code:

Receiver W91017 - 1907-1915 BSA MKIII OR 1915-1918 BSA MkIII*
Barrel R928 - 1907-1915 Enfield/BSA MkIII OR '15-'18 Enfield/SSA NRF#1 MKIII*
Rear Sight Z1239- '07-'15 BSA MKIII OR '15-'18 Enfield/NRF#1 MKIII*

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Beerhunter]

I'm not sure what you mean by: "trade rifle". It looks to me like an SMLE that has been made by BSA for the government. (The Crowned GR, Government inspection marks and Broad Arrow mark.) It was later bought out of service and turned into a target rifle by AGP. (As you have spotted, the posh target rear sight has been removed at some point.) It was probably at this time that it received its civilian Proof. The civilian Proof Mark is a Gunmakers Company (London) Military Proof and so the rifle was Proofed for civilian sale sometime between 1916 and the 1954 - probably "between the wars".

[Simon P]

What is the bore like as it is a Ball Burnished target barrel

Older link on ball burnised barrels:

Ball burnishing?

[Mk VII]

Maybe the date has been polished out - or maybe never there. There is another rifle in the [British] NRA collection (donation of Sir Ronald Melville) - also an ex-target rifle - which is a no-dater marked like this.

[Cdn303]

It looks to me like an SMLE that has been made by BSA for the government. (The Crowned GR, Government inspection marks and Broad Arrow mark.)

Maybe the date has been polished out - or maybe never there. There is another rifle in the [British] NRA collection (donation of Sir Ronald Melville) - also an ex-target rifle - which is a no-dater marked like this.

There is no discenable flat spots on the socket where the date or the usual "Sht LE MkIII" markings should be. I think what the person who put me onto 'trade rifle' meant, was that it was built or altered for sale to the civilian market through the [gun] trades (ie AG Parker).

As I said above, this is outside of my normal comfort zone. I have several other enfields (1x No1MkIII*, 1x M1917, 3x No4, 1x No5), and this is the first on that I have come across without the usual military markings.

MK VII, you wouldn't by chance have pictures or a link to that rifle that you mentioned would you? As I said, I am looking for the proper way in which to restore this rifle.

[gsimmons]

Brian Dick has a couple commercial BSA's on his site. bdlltd.com. No volley sights, but they have the cutoff.

[barbarossa]

Rifle is definitely a trade pattern SMLE III made for commercial sale. Likely early post WWI era by the serial number prefix. Never had a date on the receiver either it's correct as is. Forestock style will be the late WWI style dimpled forend relieved for cutoff.

I'd say you got a good'n!

[Thunderbox]

The "Crown and GR" look like they've been added to a normal BSA commercial. Is there a sharper, larger photo of the markings available?

[Beerhunter]

The "Crown and GR" look like they've been added to a normal BSA commercial. Is there a sharper, larger photo of the markings available?

I was just thinking that it may have been the other way round, a Commercial "taken up from trade", last night; because of the lack of date.

[Cdn303]

@Thunderbox - I can upload a better picture tomorrow.

So I guess that I can put it back to either the MKIII or MKIII* specs, depending upon what I can find for a forestock. Also, I suppose that since I want to (down the road) find a target sight for it, that restoring it without the volley sights would save me some money. (the rear volley sight has to be removed for the target sight anyhow).

I want to thank you all for your input.