Farewell fat albert

[Gil Boyd]

Big mistake for the RAF and the MOD bean counters who in my opinion after extending the C130 is a fundemental error of the time. Whilst other NATO countries rely on the airframe and the C130J is very much in use, surely we should also be consistant!!!!!

Here is its final journey for you guys in the UK on Wednesday:

After 56 years service with the RAF the C130J Hercules Farewell Flypast Wednesday 14th June 2023 | Key Aero

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Bob Womack]

Wow! I loved flying on the Herky Bird over here in the Colonies. The fans put me to sleep, and I needed every wink.

Bob

[GeeRam]

Big mistake for the RAF and the MOD bean counters who in my opinion after extending the C130 is a fundemental error of the time. Whilst other NATO countries rely on the airframe and the C130J is very much in use, surely we should also be consistant!!!!!

Being forced on RAF by MOD bean counters because of the two fleet rule IIRC.

The issue is the A400 is not a like for like replacement of the Herc.

Its a politics clusterfeck as per usual.

Airbus designed the A400 as a strategic airlifter that would enable many European airforces that couldn't afford, and didn't need the expensive heavy lift strategic capabilites that buying C-17 would have given them.
UK bought into this with view of buying A400 for that task and keeping the C130 for what it was good at, i.e tactical ops, which most of the existing European airforces were going to do (or buy C-27 for tact use)

However, because of our politicians getting our mil involved in Iraq2 and Afgan post 9/11, the RAF needed urgent strat lift, which is why we leased some C-17's.
What then happened was we clearly needed that strat lift capability for a lot longer (and with A400 now where to be seen on the horiz) we bought the leased C17's and ordered a couple more before the line closed down.

At that point common sense should have prevailed, and we should have withdrawn from our commitment to a A400 buy, and ordered half a dozen or more extra C17 to keep the line open, and that would have provided UK strat air lift, keeping C130 for the tact role which it excels at, and which A400 wasn't really designed for (it was not designed as a C130 replacement)
We didn't though (European politics took priority) and have now pretty much flogged to death our too small fleet of C17's (they are all the highest houred C17's in the world) and most likely as per E-3D fleet, they won't get any money spent on mid-life upgrade) and they will all get prematurely retired in X years time, leaving just a A400 fleet that can only do strategic lift and very limited tactical, because we have also got rid of our tact air C130 fleet.....our two fleet inventory being pretty much a two fleet strat fleet rather one of one of the other.

This is what happens when you let the lunatics run the asylum.

[mrclark303]

Being forced on RAF by MOD bean counters because of the two fleet rule IIRC.

The issue is the A400 is not a like for like replacement of the Herc.

Its a politics clusterfeck as per usual.

Airbus designed the A400 as a strategic airlifter that would enable many European airforces that couldn't afford, and didn't need the expensive heavy lift strategic capabilites that buying C-17 would have given them.
UK bought into this with view of buying A400 for that task and keeping the C130 for what it was good at, i.e tactical ops, which most of the existing European airforces were going to do (or buy C-27 for tact use)

However, because of our politicians getting our mil involved in Iraq2 and Afgan post 9/11, the RAF needed urgent strat lift, which is why we leased some C-17's.
What then happened was we clearly needed that strat lift capability for a lot longer (and with A400 now where to be seen on the horiz) we bought the leased C17's and ordered a couple more before the line closed down.

At that point common sense should have prevailed, and we should have withdrawn from our commitment to a A400 buy, and ordered half a dozen or more extra C17 to keep the line open, and that would have provided UK strat air lift, keeping C130 for the tact role which it excels at, and which A400 wasn't really designed for (it was not designed as a C130 replacement)
We didn't though (European politics took priority) and have now pretty much flogged to death our too small fleet of C17's (they are all the highest houred C17's in the world) and most likely as per E-3D fleet, they won't get any money spent on mid-life upgrade) and they will all get prematurely retired in X years time, leaving just a A400 fleet that can only do strategic lift and very limited tactical, because we have also got rid of our tact air C130 fleet.....our two fleet inventory being pretty much a two fleet strat fleet rather one of one of the other.

This is what happens when you let the lunatics run the asylum.

Spot on, remember the original FLA (Future Large Aircraft) was supposed to use off the shelf turbofans too...

But no, why do that when you can really screw the pooch and invent an entirely new turboprop from scratch, absolute insanity.

[Ovidio]

I flew from Pisa to Stavanger in February 1995, for the Strong Resolve Exercise. Then back from Trondheim to Torino Caselle. Was funny, but not that comfy...
We slept a lot (those who were not afraid of flying). But peeing in the funnel...

[browningautorifle]

But peeing in the funnel...

You ought to try the full service toilet for some real fun...you have to be a mountaineer just to get up to it.

[Gil Boyd]

Especially over a mountain of spew soaked containers.
Jumping smelling like an Egyptian Brothel is not fun, not that I would ever know anything about that, but the new dappled camouflage with carrots and airborne stew on the bergens was to die for!!!

[browningautorifle]

Especially over a mountain of spew soaked containers.

There would always be a few that had to get the pi$$ the night before and be under the weather. First day out, fourteen to go and you're already smelling like garbage.

[CINDERS]

Don't matter where you are armed services/general public service/politics the bean counters justify their position by screwing with what works to save a couple of peanuts on follies that defy logic.
I.E as Geeram alluded to why have something that works excels in what it does and will be around for a long time yet, nope lets get something that can do 1 job well like lift heavy things and we will overlook the short comings because its new and sparkling.
Been in companies where the bean counters come in and absolutely go to town like a wrecking ball, whilst at times finding out in the long run the learned system through trial and error was in some cases better than the few pennies they saved.

Anyway as long as they feel justified they consider themselves wanted just like an ash tray on a motor bike!!!!!!

[Flying10uk]

I noticed three C130's flying in line yesterday, Monday 12th June, not that far from Lyneham where they were based for many years.

I never thought it a good idea, the UK procuring the A400M because it's not a direct substitute for a C130 and it can't do everything that a C17 can.

So without C130's available what aircraft will the SAS have on 24hr standby, a A400M or a C17?