Sawn off K98

[mrclark303]

Hi all, a happy new year to all my fellow milsurpers

Here's an interesting one, I follow a group on FB who excavate interesting war time relics from across Europe. Always interesting to see what's dug up from the battlefields.

One such piece is a heavily cut down K98, I would estimate to about 12" barrel.

Now, those who have experience shooting the Alpine K98, with full fat 7.92x57 mm, will know it's recoil is not particularly pleasant.

The relic hunter appears to imply that it was common practice to cut down K98s ( as per this relic) for close fighting.

I am going to call bullshit on this, because the recoil would be absolutely ferocious and unshootable in my opinion, probably get a foot long flame out of it too...

I'm guessing a simple broken barrel from a close artillery blast.

Opinions guys?

[MAC702]

Hard to tell, of course, but that still looks too clean a cut to be explosive damage. I'm sure there were experiments and the odd idiot on the battlefield with their guns, but it wouldn't be a common practice, just perhaps a known thing. Even a 16" .30-06/8mm is ridiculous, but those were done at the issuing level in a country or two.

[browningautorifle]

Closest I can come to that... German Mauser Obrez Pistol - Forgotten Weapons


An Obrez (Russian for "Sawed-Off") is a name commonly associated with extensively modified bolt-action rifles, cut down to a much shorter length. This practice, which usually involves removing all but the last 4-8 inches of the barrel, as well as much of the furniture, the front sights and the buttstock, results in a significantly lighter and more concealable weapon at the cost of accuracy and range, to be used in lieu of a handgun or purpose-built carbine. While the sawing-off of service rifles into improvised close-quarters weapons was observed on most fronts during World War I as the tactic of trench raiding became more common, the so-called Obrez is today perhaps most commonly associated with the Russian Civil War.

[MAC702]

That "barrel" is pretty much all chamber, so the only "practical" purpose I can see for it would be as a contact weapon, and the expanding gases are probably gonna do all the damage to the, um, "target."

[RCS]

The cut down Mauser 98 reminds me of the Lee Enfield tunneler's cut down rifles from WW1. Digging tunnels to lay explosives often required a smaller/shorter variation
of the standard rifle. Examples of the Lee Enfield with approx six inch barrels and a full butt stock are known.

Perhaps another reason for a shorter barrel on the stand rifle might be for crewmen of a tank or simular vehicle

[mrclark303]

Closest I can come to that... German Mauser Obrez Pistol - Forgotten Weapons


An Obrez (Russian for "Sawed-Off") is a name commonly associated with extensively modified bolt-action rifles, cut down to a much shorter length. This practice, which usually involves removing all but the last 4-8 inches of the barrel, as well as much of the furniture, the front sights and the buttstock, results in a significantly lighter and more concealable weapon at the cost of accuracy and range, to be used in lieu of a handgun or purpose-built carbine. While the sawing-off of service rifles into improvised close-quarters weapons was observed on most fronts during World War I as the tactic of trench raiding became more common, the so-called Obrez is today perhaps most commonly associated with the Russian Civil War.

You couldn't pay me enough to shoot that monstrosity Jim, the recoil would be appalling!

[mrclark303]

There is a rather obvious reason for the cut, if we are assuming it's a deliberate cut.

Battlefield clean up, so huge were the numbers of small arms recovered, it's possible that anything damaged, was simply cut in half and buried, note no bolt...

In Holland, huge numbers of small arms and munitions of all sorts were simply thrown into ponds and canals.

[Aragorn243]

Recoil? I have a Thompson Contender in 7:30 Waters. Nothing to it, holding it with no stock at all, pistol grip. Barrel slightly longer than this. Also very accurate. They make their current handguns in 308 and 30-06.

Probably a lot less than you expect, the short barrel isn't going to allow for a lot of pressure push back.

As for the gun in question, could have been a one off, not something commonly done.

[Terry Hawker]

the Lee Enfield tunneler's cut down rifles from WW1

Not this old chestnut again!

[MAC702]

Recoil? ... Probably a lot less than you expect, the short barrel isn't going to allow for a lot of pressure push back.

That's what I was thinking, too.