Whitaker Special

[Strangely Brown]

I Make no apologies for having posted this on Gunboards as well; the plus point on this board is that the majority of posters here take a more technical and mature approach to the research we all like to indulge in.
Sermon over!

After a wait of some few weeks I finally collected the Whitaker on Sunday; these are a few pictures of it and a very general over view:

On first sight it appears very short compared to other "transitional" target rifles I own, it took a while for me to realise this is somewhat of an optical illusion caused by a short John Wilkes foresight and a longer stock, coupled with a slightly fatter barrel than the "Hart" No 4 I own.

Unusually this example has been fitted with a Swing rear sight, I don't think I have seen a Lee Enfield reciever with one on before.
Given the foresight is a John Wilkes it is no surprise to see a Swing on the back, those of you with Wilkes rear sights will notice how close in design the Swing is to the Wilkes, the reason for this is that George Swenson (an American) was working for Wilkes before designing the Swing and is believed to have had a hand in designing some of those sights.

We are lucky that Bert Whitaker "signed" his work otherwise these and the "Hart" No 4's would end up as just another 7.62 TR conversion, whilst the markings of Whitaker are nice and clear the serial number which has been electronically penciled looks like he did it late on a friday afternoon!

The comb is lower on this stock than my Hart which makes shooting at 300 yards a bit easier to get you eye to the sight.

When I collected it from Fultons and started to have a good look at it I was told it would look much better when the "Fultons crud" was taken off, this has been true!
The bore looked a bit dark when I first saw it but thanks to Hoppes No 9 it now has a mirror look.

The trigger is a touch disappointing for a target rifle with very much a two stage military
feel to it, although slightly better than some No 4's I have fired.

Information

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[Gnr527]

An interesting rifle Mick.
More recent gunsmiths often have websites, forums or blogs so progress gets broadcast and discussed.
The development of target rifle shooting during the 20th century is a fascinating study - the Harts/Whitakers/Knotts/Musgraves and others (as well as sight and scope makers like Redfield/Unertl/Lyman etc).
There are still those around who have personal recollections of the developers - but getting first hand information is progessively harder.
Anyone know of any forums that cover such subjects?

John

[Strangely Brown]

I don't know of any forums on "transitional" target rifles John; which is a shame really, although it's my main interest converted target rifles don't generate much interest on the forums, or even in my club!

Thinking about it I reckon it's more of a Commonwealth thing, whilst we shoot the Palma matches with America the commonwealth games are very much Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Kenya and the Caribean countries so why would Americans have much interest in something they don't take part in?

Tell me more about Knott, who when and what did he/they produce please?

[Gnr527]

John Knott was a gunsmith? who designed?/built?/assembled the British Full-Bore "Free" rifle for the 1948 Olympic team - 6 to 9 rifles produced?
The NRA museum has one on display and one of the curators knows a fair bit about Knott.
The '48 Games were held in London and this seems to have been the early days of the transitional period from Service rifle into pure target (should I be corrected? - for the UK at least)
I have sent you a private e-mail of a press cutting.
Regards
John

[jmoore]

Friend of mine bought one of the Musgrave rifles that came back with the US Palma(?) team when they were there in the seventies, I think. Not a military rifle, obviously, however a very nice bit of machinery. Maybe pics if y'all want, as he owns the camera I get to use once in a while. (I use his photo website thing for my pics ,too)

[Surpmil]

I don't know of any forums on "transitional" target rifles John; which is a shame really, although it's my main interest converted target rifles don't generate much interest on the forums, or even in my club!

Interesting rifle and it is a pity there is so little attempt to document and preserve these various rifles. In another 20 or years or so, those that built and used them will mostly be dead. I suppose that will be about the time people start getting interested!

Built on a Maltby is it? Quite a rough looking action, but then function was all that mattered to 90% of the target shooters.

Does the UK NRA not have a museum for this sort of thing? Would think they could get a lot of material donated to them if they asked.

There should really be subsections devoted to sporters and target rifles IMO. Why not, the milsurp-based ones that is?

[krinko]

Beautiful rifle, Mick.
About your engraved numbers---I've used a rotary engraver and I can say that yours are a pretty fair freehand and not necessarily late Friday work.

A note about these rifles in the US---some of the more esoteric have never been seen here, of course, but the few .308 conversions that do show are gobbled up greedily.
It's not that they are unappreciated---they just aren't here in any quantity.

I will happily look at photos of any that the Commonwealth members would care to display.
-----krinko

[Roger Payne]

Mick, is this the one built on a 4T action? I know I ought to embrace firearms diversity, but................................AAAAAAARRRRRRGG GGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!

From what I can gather many if not most of the Harts & Whitakers were built on telescope rifle receivers.

A moan T wail B whimper.....

[Strangely Brown]

Mick, is this the one built on a 4T action? I know I ought to embrace firearms diversity, but................................AAAAAAARRRRRRGG GGGHHHHHHHHHHHH!

From what I can gather many if not most of the Harts & Whitakers were built on telescope rifle receivers.

A moan T wail B whimper.....

We're in luck Roger; it's not a 4T action!

However from what I have found out most Whitakers appear to be 4T's; well thats according to the few people I know who own one, the research on this continues and I shall hope to do an article at some stage for LERA and/or the HBSA on the subject.

Do you know of anyone else who did a onepiece furniture conversion on No4's to 7.62mm in the 1970's?

[Roger Payne]

Mick,
What a relief! I think we exchanged a few posts a month or so back when you mentioned the rifle was on the way. I was put in touch with Geoff Hart in about 1992 when he was planning to wind down. He had a small sack containing four No4 (T) receivers, all complete with body pads & some action parts. He agreed to let me buy them for 40 pounds each........I nearly took his arm off at that price, even then! He mentioned that he had carried on the tradition of Bert Whitaker in making similar conversions. I had a look at one he had just completed & IIRC it was very similar to yours, complete with the absence of butt socket & the one piece stock. Incidentally, one of the four receivers in the old sack was a '31 Trials (now owned by a good mate of mine)....ATB