May have found one of my Enfield "Holy Grails"

[MysticalB]

First of all, let me say that I've been incredibly lucky in my 1 year of dedicated Enfield collection, and I'm very thankful for boards such as these.
The result of my one year's collecting:

I've lurked for awhile, as I didn't feel I had anything much worth sharing, but a recent find has changed that. I bought my first gun back in 2008, a 1918 BSA Mk.III* and fell in love with the Lee Enfield. I bought Skennerton's books, read all I could, but unfortunately I couldn't afford to really collect them. But in the years of waiting there was one Enfield I wanted above all others (ok, except for the 1902 trials SMLE's), a Gallipoli survivor. I never thought I would see one in person, and if I did it would be, shall we say, prohibitively expensive. It became my holy grail. And I think I may have found it.

A local collector remarked to me at a gunshow that he was going to be selling some Enfields, and said he had a Mk.III in the lot. I agreed, sight unseen, to buy it for $600. A bit foolish, but I was desperate for a Mk.III with volley sights. The next show he brings it and this is the rifle I received:




It was built in 1910 by RSAF Enfield, sighted for Mk.VI ball, serial numbered M342x. The receiver, barrel, nosecap, rear-sight leaf, and forestock are all numbered matching to the gun. The wood is a little worse for wear, and a large section just behind the nosecap on the left side of the gun has obviously been burnt.


The rifle was also import marked by Century. The owner says he thinks he's had the rifle for about 10 years or so, but was unsure. He's elderly, and couldn't quite recall:


The wood matches in finish and wear, so I'm fairly certain she wears her original stock. Which led to my question. In the buttstock there is a unit ID disk, which looks to have been there a very long time.

It's mounted that way in the rifle, upside down. It reads:
2 15
6 BR
1101
I have been told that this indicates that this rifle was issued to the 6th Battalion of the Border Regiment in February of 1915, and was rack number 1101. Assuming that this is the original stock disk, and the unit ID is correct, this rifle was issued while the 6th was training in England, according to their unit history. In July they set sail for the Gallipoli and landed on 20 July at Helles. According to this website:6th (Service) Battalion Border Regiment - Border Regiment Wiki, they were operation at Suvla Bay from August 1915-December 1915. As I read this my eyes lit up, as I could tell this rifle left British service quite a long while ago, as it escaped the conversion to Mk.III*, and retained its burnt furniture. The rifle also sports a rather crudely made leather sling, which is sewed to the front and rear sling swivels.

So my questions for the much more knowledgeable and experienced collector are these:

1. Is the unit ID correct, or am I reading them wrong?
2. If the unit ID is correct, is there a chance that this rifle, based on it's condition, was present at the battle?
3. (I've tried to contact Century with this, but to no avail) Based on the import mark, could this have been one of the rifles Century brought out of Turkey some time ago?
4. And finally, am I grasping at straws, or do I have a solid case for this rifle being a Gallipoli capture piece?

I appreciate any input, however small, and also for anyone who's read my unnecessarily long post. Also, thanks to the moderators and contributors for such an awesome board. I've enjoyed lurking and am excited to have something worth sharing.

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Anzac15]

Beautiful rifle. I too have been searching high and low for an SMLE that I could pinpoint to the Gallipoli campaign. Seems you might have a contender there. That sling just screams Turk to me. And the stock disc, boy this is really where you wish these old war horses could talk! I really hope this turns out to be what you want it to be. Will be watching this thread closely for more info!

[Peter Laidler]

Brian Dick at BDL Ltd in SC sells a little interesting book that details all of the UK MIlitary butt marking discs that you might be interested to read.

[jrhead75]

The sling plus the Century billboard both point very convincingly to the fairly recent Turkish batch. There have been several real gems among them, and it looks to me like you've scored one of them...a Gallipoli, or at least theater battlefield captured rifle.

A really "grailworthy" find...I'm a particularly deep shade of green right now.

[muffett.2008]

Damn pity about that fool stamping though, surely they could put it under the top handguard.

[HOOKED ON HISTORY]

Well done . Paticence seems to have paid off. Nice Enfield family photo.

[tiriaq]

Speaking of the Turkish theater, my great uncle Christopher Cranmer died at Salonika in 1916.

[RJW NZ]

Yahoo, I love this. I had one of those shortened 1907 bayonets with the turk mauser mounts, and the 1907 blade was dated several years pre Gallipoli. There's no proof of anything of course but its really something to hold history, even history adjacent, lol, in ones hands. I think you've got a gem there, be interesting to learn those id marks more.

In the they are out there dept. 3 years ago a No1 MK3 from small town Ventura, Los Angeles, with ALH for Australian Light Horse, clearly stamped on it and a butt disc with the correct numbers for gallipoli service, was listed on gunbroker, the seller clearly didn't know the significance. It sold for a modest price, under 1,000 if I remember rightly. I would have leapt tall buildings if I had the ability to get that.

I've been looking at just a barrel and receiver locally nz with ALH/1912 etc and at 3500 the owner wont part with it, can't beat that connection.

btw, really nice collection you've got there, what about the second from top, a no1? and the NoV? what years etc


Quote ‘ With models that range from a dependable soldiers rifle to some of the worlds finest sniper rifles, few weapons more than the British Lee Enfield three nought three connect one so richly to so much heritage and history.’

[HOOKED ON HISTORY]

Quote ‘ With models that range from a dependable soldiers rifle to some of the worlds finest sniper rifles, few weapons more than the British Lee Enfield three nought three connect one so richly to so much heritage and history.’

Do you know to whom attribute the that great quote?

[MysticalB]

btw, really nice collection you've got there, what about the second from top, a no1? and the NoV? what years etc

From the top:

Magazine Lee Enfield Mk.I*, BSA Co. 1902
SMLE Mk.I***, BSA Co. 1904
SMLE Mk.III, RSAF Enfield 1910
SMLE Mk.III, SAF Lithgow, 1915 (FTR'd 10/47)
SMLE Mk.III*, BSA Co. 1918
SMLE Mk.III*, BSA Co. 1918 (Later had the magazine cut-off slot added, and the * struck out. Then was rebuilt at Ishapore in 1937 and had another * added back to the cypher)
SMLE Mk.V, RSAF Enfield, 1924 (All numbers matching, but has a Savage No.4 Buttstock)
Rifle No.4 Mk.I*, Longbranch, 1942 (All matching but a replacement 1944 barrel that is absolutely mint)

Not pictured:
Rifle No.1 Mk.III*, BSA Co. 1940 (A sporterized dispersal rifle that I'm slowly bringing back to life.