M1917, PH#4 rear site

[ronk]

Hello,

I have bought a Wincherter 1917 SN# 203xxx and started reading blogs anout the rifle. I have learned a lot from your web site, THANKS for being there.

I have fired the weapon at mt range and @ 50 yards have a large (wwide apart) group that is hight and to the left( at approx 10:30 ). I have moved the front site to obtain dead center for windage but still remain high by about6+ inches. In reading your blogs I understand that Parker-Hale has a rear site
(PH5B) that can be use with no adapting to the weapon. My question is,"Can a PH#4 site be used on the weapon with no adaption??. Would this site be an advantage over the PH5B if I am shooting a Practical Rifle course??

Thank you in advance,
Ron K.

My Rifles:
M-16
WW2 BAR
M1 Grande
M1 carbine
1903A3
M1917
M1A
Uzi
Mossberg 590
K98
Russian SKS
AR 15
an a very special: M151A1 Jeep, see http://www.vietnamjeep.com

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[jamie5070]

I don't know about the PH#4. I have never seen one advertized as such so I doubt if it can. I do have a PH#5b on one of my '17s and do like it.
Some questions for you.
Are you shooting with the leaf or battle sight? The battle sight was originally sighted at over 400 yds. Using the leaf will give you little lower setting.
Are the stock bolts tight and is there a snug fit at thes tock tip so that the barrel is not loose there?
Springfield sprters sells a set of front sight inserts that you can play with to drop the zero point of aim.
You could try shooting it with a bayonet on the end. According to C.F.Harris's book ,UNITED STATES RIFLE MODEL OF 1917, shooting with the bayonet on will drop the point of impact about 8.75" at 200yds, and 9.25" at 300yds.
There is a lot of great info in this book and I highly reccomend it. My copy stays on my desk and not on a shelf.
john

[rgg_7]

The PH4 will not drop into theP14 or the Model1917. You need to use the Parker Hale 5B or the AJP equivalent. Nothing wrong with the PH 5B. Ron

[Patrick Chadwick]

Dear Ronk,

this question comes up repeatedly, and always requires the same clarification:
What target type are you shooting at - i.e. what is the diameter of the black?
And how are you aiming - blade tip at 6 o'clock or in the center of the black?

The battle sight aperture can be ignored for target shooting. Using the leaf backsight AND with the point of aim at 6 o'clock AND using the 8"/20cm ISSF target, you should be in the black at 50 yards and able to zero the point of impact at 100 yards/meters. As far, of course, as the limited click options allow.

The important point here, is that when using the 6 o'clock hold, the point of impact is NOT the same as the point of aim. With the 6 o'clock hold, you are in effect dropping the aim by half the height of the black.

Check that out before concluding that you need a higher foresight blade. And if you really do need a higher blade, then it is useful to know that Enfield blades should fit (never actually tried it myself).

What worries me is that you say you have a large group at 50 yards. The first rule in shooting that was dinned into me by the Scots RSM who taught me how to shoot properly (rather than just pulling the trigger), was "If ye canna group ye canna shoot".

In other words, I recommend that you first get the rifle and ammo set up so that you have an acceptable group (definitely under 2" at 50 yards) before worrying about where exactly that group is. Jamie5070 has pointed out a couple of things you should have a look at. Besides, of course, getting the book by C.S. Ferris already mentioned, and British Enfield Rifles Vol 4: "The Pattern 1914 and U.S: Model 1917" rifles by Charles R. Stratton (good for dismantling/assembling and checking out the bits and pieces).

1. First check the mechanical setup of the rifle.
2. Then check the ammo. As you are a beginner with this model, find someone in your vicinity (club member?) who has one, shoots it, and knows what it likes.
3. Then get a satisfactory group.
4. THEN correct the sighting - it may not even be necessary if points 1 to 3 have been dealt with!

Patrick