SMLE Oddball Sniper?

[Buccaneer]

I recently bought an SMLE fitted with a Winchester scope center mounted not side mounted as seems to be the norm. The rifle was made by BSA, it's serial number has no prefix or suffix and it carries a South African acceptance mark, broad arrow inside a U and is in very good condition. The scope appears to be commercial Winchester, the only marks on it are X-8and is about 18 inches long. The mount, which I am told was designed by Parker Hale is in fact engraved BSA and appears to be serial numbered to the rifle. I was told from the dealer that I bought it from that it had come from a museum in Brighton (UK) and it had come to them from Iraq some time in the dim and distant past but how true that is I have no idea. Can anyone shed some light on how the rifle came to be in this configeration and who might have done it ? Any additional information about possible date of manufacture of the rifle would be appreciated. Photos attatched.

Information

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[Thunderbox]

The "XSAW" indicates that the rifle is one of those recently imported into UK from South Africa. Most of these seem to have come from Police stocks, and are usually taken-into-service commercials and refurbished bitsas built by the SA armourers. Since these SA imports have only really been around for the past few years - ie since they surplussed out - I'd hazard a guess that someone in UK has recently been a bit creative in making up a "sniper" rifle.

Bring it along to the next arms fair at Bisley and we can check it out.

p.s. many/most of these SA surplus rifles have been through Holts auctioneers. You might try to see if they have the rifle number on their database.

p.p.s. apart from the barrel, is the rifle in proof? Are the marks on the bolt and bolt head Birmingham or London?

[Buccaneer]

Thanks for the info Thunderbox attatched is photo of bolthead proof mark.

[Son]

To the best of my knowledge no one has successfully deciphered the serial number ranges used by BSA for their commercial rifles to the point where a year of manufacture could be pinned down. There has been a couple of studies done by individuals but with no factory data it remains a mystery. They didn't even date their barrels, and rifles of any prior configuration requested could be built up so model is no help either.

[Badger]

Although slightly tangential to this thread and for members who haven't seen it, check the MKL for an article accompanied by a 240 pic photo montage on ...

1916 ShtLE (Short Lee-Enfield) No.1 MkIII* Sniper Rifle
c/w Winchester A5 (5 Power) Offset Scope (Mfg by RSAF Enfield)

Regards,
Doug

[Peter Laidler]

To be brutally honest and frank the notion that a telescope could be secured to a rifle with a mount fixed by a cross pin through the rearsight bracket is ludicrous. The accumulative error within such a scheme would ........................, well! As for any notion of structural rigidity........., same again. You could say that such a scheme has structural FLEXABILITY built in -, by the bucketfull! That wouldn't even get out of the starting blocks as a sniper rifle. In my honest opinion and being a tad frank again Buccaneer, I wouldn't be taken in by all that. IN fact, I was trying to think of some simple engineering example to compare it with ........... but I can't! I'd like to see the action of the telescope on firing. I bet it's humping up and down like a bulldogs boxxxxxs

Sorry to be the first to bring bad tidings on this warm Easter day but I bet I won't be the last

[Valleysniper]

The scope base appears to be an exact copy of the Parker Hale/A G Parker one designed for the WA5 during the great war (See pic) and available afterwards. Probably one of the first "No gunsmithing" mounts? Quite a few of these bases have been copied recently.

[Peter Laidler]

For 30/- (that's £1:50p) I'd say that they were robbing you.....................

[RobD]

The rifle is a BSA commercial, the SA govt bought thousands of these after WW1 and they were used in WW2 and by home guard (National Rifle Volunteers) and in the strategic war reserve - often found in good condition. The XSAW is new to me but probably means Ex - Suid Afrikaanse Weermag (S A Army).
The BSA commercial barrel looks like a South African Army re-barrel job.
As far as I know, there was no S A military use of rifles scoped /mounted like this, but TerryLee who posts here is the world expert in these things - PM him?
I would humbly suggest the Brighton museum story is spurious.

[Thunderbox]

Thanks for the info Thunderbox attatched is photo of bolthead proof mark.

The new London Proof is very strong circumstantial evidence that the rifle is indeed one of the SA imports that have come through Holts in the past year or two.

Nice rifle, but the museum/Iraq story is most likely - as my Hong Kong orderly used to say - "borrocks!"....