Lost My Mind At the Range

[INLAND44]

A couple months ago I went to the range to sight my carbine. By the time I had it lined up, the aperture was over against the sight frame but basically centered on the receiver - in other words, the sight base was pushed over too far. Later I marked everything, knocked the sight base loose and reset it with Loctite in the correct position. Today I go back to the range expecting to maybe make minor adjustments with the windage screw, and it was shooting way right. I couldn't figure what happened. I finally got it lined up but the aperture was all the way over again. I guessed I had made a mistake somewhere and brought it home. Later, putting it away, I took another look at the sight and saw what had happened - the sight base, although appearing to be solidly fixed, had shifted in the receiver. It won't move by hand, but must have been jarred on the way to the range or maybe it moved from recoil. This time I use RED Loctite!

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[DaveHH]

You may not ever get it right.

[INLAND44]

'You may not ever get it right'

What do you mean? You don't have to get the base perfect, just pretty close. The indexing plate on the back has a slight adjustment in it so it can be centered when the aperture is set on line.
I have to use something better than the blue, and I don't want to stake it. Well, I might stake it if it by chance lines up with the old stake marks.

[browningautorifle]

Are you sure your barrel is indexed correctly? Front sight top dead center? It sounds like something's out of wack.

[INLAND44]

It's okay. The sight base just moved because the blue Loctite didn't 'take'. Maybe it's too old. I just finished fixing it so I'll see how it holds up. I didn't use Loctite this time. I used a form of RTV silicone because I may want to shift or remove that sight at some future time. And I really cleaned and degreased the sight base and receiver dovetails, too. If it doesn't stick, I'll try something else. No big deal. It sure had me going at the range though.

[DaveHH]

it is the sum total of the manufacturing errors that causes these things to not line up like some weapons. The barrel could be bent, offset in the receiver, the index marks wrong, any number of little things. My original Winchester has lots of these things and when you look down the barrel, not much lines up. It does have the factory installed adjustable sight lined up close to center, but it still isn't right to the naked eye, but shoots great.

When I said "You might not ever get it right" I mean if you put a nice gob of red on that sight and it happens to be clean and fresh, then you might be stuck right there and never get it off. Just because the rear sight is centered doesn't mean that it will work. In WB it points out that large numbers of barrels were bent when they arrived from the manufacturer, so having to do radical sight adjustments isn't an uncommon thing.

[INLAND44]

Wow. Dude. Take my word for it - the carbine is in perfect condition. I put a different front sight on it several years ago but never checked sighting. The rear sight base was originally shifted left and the aperture was not far from being centered in the sight frame, maybe two clicks off. So, when I took it to the range the first time after the change, sighting was naturally different, and coincidentally came out with the aperture centered on the carbine but too close to the sight frame. I went ahead and centered the frame and moved the aperture back to center, the point I had marked in the field. My problem was the Loctite fix didn't work. When I took it back to the range to verify sighting, the sight had been bumped and shifted without my noticing it, so suddenly I'm shooting way off the target.
I'm sure we are all aware of how sights are routinely not centered, because each carbine (or anything else) has it's own quirks. This is precisely why the rear sight base dovetail is wider than the receiver dovetail, to allow for a wider range of adjustment. In my case, I was excited about the fact that it actually came out to be centered. You don't see many carbines that are actually sighted in with the sight base and aperture centered.
The aperture is supposed to be centered in the sight frame, though. The gross adjustment on a new carbine or new sight installation was made by shifting the sight base with the aperture centered. This alone allowed the carbine to pass the rather generous allowances of the 25 yd and 100 yd sighting targets. Later, after issuing, fine adjustments could be made with the windage adjustment - the aperture indexing plate has some latitude for adjustment on the milled sights, like mine.
I really didn't want to get into this long-winded explanation, but you're not willing to let it go, so the bottom line is, IT WAS THE SIGHT! Or, perhaps that should be 'it was my crummy glue job because I didn't want any more stake marks on it'

[imarangemaster]

I had a Blue Sky carbine years ago that the rear sight would not stay tight, no matter what I did. I finally removed the rear sight from the dovetail and intentionally (slightly) damaged the center of the sharp edges of the dovetails on the sight housing to make it tight when it slid in. (NEVER mess with the sight bridge, as they are brittle) I centered it as best I could after that, and it seemed OK. Maybe try that, I-44.

[DaveHH]

I can definitely let it go. The red Loktite is just a bear to get off, that was my only concern. You've obviously got it right.

Now can I impress you with a little historical background on the rare Singer carbines?

[browningautorifle]

Pardon? Singer?