Mount for No.32 Houghton Butcher Mk II Scope?

[gsthreeeight]

I recently acquired this scope on an M47C that had been "sporterized" on a bench vice probably in the late 1950s or early 1960s. The rifle had been stored in a shed and was pretty much a total loss except for the receiver and scope mounting pads. The scope had some surface rust spots but cleaned up easily.

I know that the Scope is a Houghton Butcher Mk II from the visible part of the Gov't code OS 165XX and the fact that there are four "clicks" between the 100yd. increment marks on the elevation drum. As such, it would have been manufactured sometime after April 1943.

The scope has very good optics, the reticle is in excellent condition and both drums rotate freely, index crisply and there is no apparent play in the adjustments.

Is there any way to date an HBM No. 32 Mk II? Is the RegD No. the equivalent of a serial number and are there any records indicating year of manufacture by RegD No.?

The Scope Mount is a bit of a mystery. Aside from the matching cap numbers and the number "C38542" on the left side, there are no other marks what ever. According to Greenaway's article "On Your Marks", the C-number would be the correct SN for a BSA Shirley M47C manufactured in early 1944. (This number did not match the M47C SN from which the scope and mount were removed.)

Would anyone care to hazard a guess as to the manufacturer of this mount?

Your comments and observations would be appreciated.

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Lance]

From the shape of the corners of the casting I would assume it is a Dalglish (N92) made example. Sometimes the N92 is poorly struck, but I cannot even see a faint partial on yours.

[Roger Payne]

I would concur with Lance re the bracket, it is by no means typical in its looks. In fact I thought it was one of mine for a moment! The transition from Mk1 to Mk2 in HBMCo production was in the 11,000's & I suspect yours must be a very early Mk2. If this is the case it would probably date to around Spring/early Summer 1943 mfr.

The C prefix on the bracket most certainly would relate to a 1944 BSA. You mentioned that the rifle was a dead loss apart from the receiver & body pads.......well, if you don't mind a rebuild project you've got the really crucial bits! Was the bolt salvageable? I ask because it would be nice to keep that if it's matching.......It all sounds like a great little refub project to me. Are you going to do it?

ATB

[gsthreeeight]

Thank you for your comments and observations.

The donor rifle was in sad shape. The barrel had been sawn off behind the front sight and dressed with a file. The forestock was chopped off just behind the first barrel band. There were no upper hand guards. The butt plate was missing. The butt stock had been sanded to the extent that the S51 stamp was barely legible. The bore looked like the inside of an old water pipe. I sold it at a gun show for the value of the receiver and scope tabs as I lack the skills as well as the interest in completing a refurb/rebuild. The bolt and receiver were in remarkably good condition considering the rest of the rifle and had matching numbers, but they did not match the number on the scope mount.

The scope and mount presently reside on a 1942 Savage No4 Mk1*(T) that I located in a pawn shop in Austin, TX. The pair seem to get along well. After setting the windage to "0" and the elevation to "1", the first round of HXP ball struck the target approximately 12" below and 1.5" to the right of the POA at 100yds. Speaks well of the quality and consistency of the craftsmen at Holland and Holland.

The rifle will be the subject of my next post.

If any further information surfaces regarding scope mounts and their markings, I would greatly appreciate hearing about it.

[Badger]

Those pics are very good and enlarge to full size for greater detail ....

Note: After you click on images to ENLARGE them, you may find they automatically size smaller in your browser's window making them harder to view. The auto sizing is your browser's way of keeping images entirely within the screen size you have set. Move your mouse pointer to the bottom centre of the pic and you will see an options panel appear. There will be a small square box next to the large X, which will have a pointer arrow sticking out of it. If it's illuminated, it means the pic you're viewing can be enlarged, so click on this box and the pic will EXPAND and open to its normal size.

Regards,
Doug

[Peter Laidler]

I have a few of its close relatives logged as
11238 fitted to original rifle and bracket C-3182x
11264 with the OS milled out and re-engraved OS 1640 and a 1 added to the priginal Mk1 to read 11. Original bracket/rifle D3739x