Std. Pro

[Mikey51]

Has anyone got any clues on where the first block went ? 1.9 to 2.3 ? I have only found one after a lot of searching ?. Thanks. Mike.

Information

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[usgicollector]

Mike
I know they are pretty hard to find under 2.01 here in the states. Seems like the second half of the block is all over here I the states. They only had the one block of numbers at SP.
Dave

[wtmr]

I think to the Navy Jones locker deep blue in atlantic-been looking for a 19xxxxxx orig for over 10 yrs

[Mikey51]

Do you think there may be any avenues of enquiry still open ? i.e. production records, assignment records, trains, trucking companies, ships etc ? I know it's hard work but I have recently discovered pics of some Fijian guys, (used as trackers by U.S and Australian troops in New Guinea and the Solomons as they were natural jungle fighters), with what looks like to me, very new Carbines. Have also been looking at the "storepeado" matter, a way of dropping arms to those guys from U.S B.24s flying from the top end of Australia. There must be an answer !. Mike.

[firstflabn]

Mike, as intriguing as the question is, there was probably never an answer. At every stage of prooduction serial numbers were randomized and at every stage of distribution, mixing of makers occurred. The army had tens of thousands of inventory items to track - and only the beginnings of help from machines. There might be a very slight tendency for carbines made on the east coast to go to Europe and those made in the Midwest to go to the Pacific to reduce railroad shipping mileage in the U.S., but that tendency, if it existed, could have been cancelled out by emergencies. At any rate, the number of solidly identified carbines is so small that no pattern is apparent.

If you carefully read the logistics parts of the Army Green Books you will see that cabines were in such short supply until at least mid-war that units in training would often receive only 25-50% of their T/O&E requirements - even those units slated for overseas movement. So, even within a single unit, you could have wide variations in makers and manufacturing dates - and that's before considering replacements for expenditures during operations.

I have an original-appearing Saginaw that's less than 80 numbers from a documented Pacific coastwatcher rifle, so I too have struggled with the ID question. In the end though, a carbine that's only one number away from the coastwatcher gun could have gone anywhere in the world. As analytical beings, we look for patterns everywhere - it's a survival instinct and the basis for progress - but that doesn't mean there are identifiable patterns to be discerned. Any government contractor anywhere, anytime keeps the records required by contract provisions and no others. Preparing records costs money and storing them costs something too, so even if any of the type of records you seek ever existed, its survival until today is purely accidental.

If you're a member of the Carbine Club, you can ask for their records of known SP serial numbers to test your supposition that the early ones are underrepresented. According to them, the recent CMP batch included well over 2,000 SP - and that total is close to the overall percentage of SP production.

[Mikey51]

Many thanks for that very constructive and informative comment ! as some of you know, I'm a retired Detective, can't sleep on an unanswered question or unsolved problem. Here's something else I found which may help fellow Collectors. Sorry about the colour of the pics. Mike.

[dnikkor]

No idea if this helps, but my Std. Pro. carbines are # 20919xx & 21184xx, so right in the middle of the first block.

[shadycon]

Here is another one. Mine is ser. #222450X , double stamped, ST trigger housing, S122 slide, and the rest is a mix.

[Mikey51]

Would anyone be interested in seeing a few more pics of a 1.9. Posted them a couple of years ago. Don't want to bore the forum ? Mike.

[Harlan (Deceased)]

Two years ago??? (Heck, I can hardly remember what I had for breakfast!)

Yes, please. We always like to see your carbines!
~ Harlan