I. Hollis and Sons Martini Sporter- What do you think?

[johnny.50]

Hi all,

Back from the bazaar this Sunday evening with a few new finds.

this is a Hollis and Sons sporter Martini. Please provide thoughts/feedback- is it authentic? I know there are a few parts replaced, but i am mostly concerned with the receiver and barrel. Rifling is decent- not as good as normally found here, but it mic's out ok. The pistol grip has chequering, but the fore stock does not. I think it is from a MKII. No safety, no indicator. The action is completely enclosed and is removable by releasing the one trigger housing screw.

Anyone know where i can get the blades to replace the ones missing on the express sight?

Also, has a one-piece action. I've seen it before, but not sure where.





Is this the Martini Trademark?









Thanks for the input!


johnny

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[johnny.50]

whoops!

I meant, is this the martini trademark?

[Patrick Chadwick]

I have reservations about this one.
In the 5th photo, the mark below the hypothetical M-mark might, with some good will, be interpreted as a very worn example of the Liege "perron" mark.

In the next photo, the marks look as if they were formed from individual chisel strokes, not a single blow with a proper stamp. And the numbers appear to have a hand-scratched oriental look about them. The trigger is also very crude.

But the makers name on the barrel looks good.

Thought: maybe an original Belgian-made barrel that was "recycled "long before the word was invented.


Patrick

[johnny.50]

Patrick, I don't think it's a a perron. I have two belgian rifles here to compare and this is not one of them. it is really a beautiful gun, i wish i could remember where i saw this type of action before.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Well, you've got the rifle in front of you - I haven't. But the style of the receiver is definitely Francotte Martini, and English gunmakers imported a lot of Belgian barrels.

The decoration on the receiver bothers me. One the right side, the patterning with the central circle matches in well with the receiver shape. On the left side it does not. The circular area is disturbed by a rectangular section that does not match up well with the top edge of the receiver. I suspect that the decoration was added by Ali Bubba.

Certainly the guts of the action look very Khyber-Pass, but as to the reciever itself, I think you will have to look very carefully at the inside surfaces of the box to see if it has been machined (in which case I would vote for a Francotte original) or hand-filed, in which case it is K-P.

If it is a Francotte/Belgian barrel and receiver, and the barrel is really good, then I would consider patiently looking out for properly made internal parts - maybe from a wallhanger - to get it back into operation again. You need to dismantle the entire action and clean all components to sort out any original bits from the hand-carved parts.


Patrick

[johnny.50]

Patrick,

I finally had a chance to break it down and give a good look. I think you are correct. Dang. I was kind of suspicious of the same things you pointed out. The biggest giveaway is the boss that the barrel screws into. Hand beaten into shape. Oh well, next rifle, please.

[Patrick Chadwick]

Don't take it too hard! The Afghans have been copying and faking guns for so long, that one day someone is going to set up a museum of "Original Khyber-Pass Weapons". I am impressed by what they can do with hand tools and, presumably, a lot of time.

And high-tech is creeping in as well. When I bought my M-H there was another in the shop that had very good markings on the receiver. In fact, excellent markings. Much crisper than the rest of the rifle. In other words, too good to be true. I had to sit down and study the receiver through a watchmaker's eyeglass before it dawned on me - the markings had been photo-etched, like a printed circuit board !


Patrick

[TheDoubleD]

Johnny I hope you bought this rifle! It is a nice European sporter. Most likely Belgium made and most likely a Francotte.

It does have some spurious and fake marks and a possible restamp mark. The I. Hollis mark on the barrel is a remark with modern made stamps. Hollis marks should be engraving and not stamps.

The Martini Trademark only appears on actions as that was the part that was patented. Given the heavy wear it is very likely the is a Perron.

This would make a grand platform for a heavy restoration or rebuild.

If you feel you have been had send the rifle to me and I will send you postage plus what you paid for the rifle...I know what to do with this rifle!