Versailles Treaty "Double Date" GEW 98

[jmoore]

Can find no real info on this matching (as reworked) 1916 Danzig. It's not a Kar 98b with the bent down bolt handle and side sling mounting. Just a tangent sighted GEW 98. Any insights?

Photos may be a problem, but here goes...












The follower looks to be modified to allow it to rise high enough in the bolt raceway to act as a stop even though it has the WWI type bevel in the rear. Like the rest, it's S/N matches.

Having dramas editing photos. So I'll bail for now. But here's a link to the entire album in slideshow format:

Image hosting, free photo sharing video sharing at Photobucket

Hopefully, it'll be a bit more viewable as the week progresses!

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Badger]

Although it's a carbine, under Germany, does the MKL entry for a Danzig help?

1913/1920 (Double Dated) Kar98a Carbine

Regards,
Doug

[jmoore]

That entry was referenced promptly, but this rifle isn't really mentioned in my few Mauser books. It's all Kar 98a (short) or Kar 98b (the full sized version). Just found it (and the gunshop that had it) Saturday! I've not seen one quite like it before- which may not mean a whole lot...

(A friend bought a late Kriegsmodell K98K with the zf41 mount at that same shop upon making a hasty return which I missed seeing in time. So your old scope might get some range time- finally! Have yet to fabricate a elevation "clicker" for it, though.)

[Patrick Chadwick]

but this rifle isn't really mentioned in my few Mauser books.

Simple - you need that fine example of bedtime reading - "Handbuch Deutscher Waffenstempel" by Wacker & Görtz !!

P.222 shows the Reichswehr marking plan. The reference provided by Badger is correct. The 1920 is the mark that indicates this is one of the rifles "officially" taken over by the Reichswehr. The arms limitation according to the Versailles treaty allowed the German Republic to have 21 Infantry regiments, and each company had a contingent of 166 Gew 98 - the Kar98 was not yet the standard infantry weapon.

The 1920 mark should also be visible on the left side of the butt, about halfway between the takedown throughbolt and the buttplate. Have a look, it may be faintly marked. If there is a regimental marking anywhere, it should be in the style: 1.J.R.2.3, where J.R: stands for Jnfantrie Regiment, using the capital J to avoid confusion with a number 1. If you find such a mark, please post it here, and I may be able to tell you precisely to which unit the rifle was assigned.

Bearing in mind the Versailles treaty restrictions, and the fact that the army was gradually equipped with K98k in the following years, I think that you have found a rarity. Congratulations, that is a keeper. Not quite hens' teeth category, but definitely uncommon.


Patrick

---------- Post added at 09:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:52 PM ----------

Just looked at the photo-album. As far as I can see, a fully marked and all matching Gew. 98 from 1916, apparently arsenal overhauled and assigned to the Reichswehr, judging by the stock repairs and the occasional post-1920 eagle stamps which replaced the imperial crown. Please check out the butt and the buttplate for other markings as explained previously. And the rifling at the bore looks excellent for the vintage!

[jmoore]

I finally found a brief paragraph about this rebuild in Olson's book. He mentioned the wider lower band which escaped my notice. Sure enough, this rifle has it. They modified the band retaining spring so that it would properly engage. However, the sweeping curve on the spring's top surface is now gone, so getting the band started forward is a real bother! This wide band with the bottom swivel must be particularly scarce. It's unique to this rework as far as I know- at least in German usage.






Note the narrower rear band on this 1915 rifle. (Sorry for lack of a close up- the need was unanticipated! This is an old photo from a previous thread.)

[Johnny Peppers]

You commonly see the "1920" referred to as a rebuild stamp, but had nothing to do one way or the other with a rebuild. So many weapons had been stolen following the Great War that the Reichswehr put out a directive that all stolen military arms be turned in. These weapons were stamped with the 1920 as a property stamp, and if you were found with a weapon so stamped, you were guilty of theft of that military arm.

The directive outlined where the 1920 property mark was to be applied to each type of weapon. As common with other directives, some were not sure as to exactly which arms it applied. Jan Still has a picture of a G Date P.08 (1935) with the 1920 property stamp.

[jmoore]

Things I've found so far that distinguish this rifle from your garden variety WWI Gew 98:

1)Tangent rear sight
2)Wide rear band (and shortened band spring)
3)"1920" above original manufacturer's markings on receiver ring.
4)Modified follower which now works as an "empty magazine warning" bolt stop. (I've not seen this mentioned in published references, yet, but haven't gone back through to double check.)
5) Blued receiver and receiver parts.

Some rework clues:
1) the additional blued parts (and bluing over corroded areas on the cocking piece and front band- not yet photographed in detail)
2)Later style inspector's marks on the safety and front action screw
3)Renumbered floorplate and firing pin

[Calif-Steve]

The Germans shipped large numbers of older Gew98's to Spain during the Spanish Civil war. Likely this is one of them. You may find a very tiny Spanish stamp on the bottom of the receiver in front of the front guard screw hole. Nice keeper, for sure.

[Claven2]

I believe this to be a transitional Kar98b. Basically, it appears to have all the 98b features apart from a bent bolt handle, the scalloped recess in the stock for the bent bolt, and a K98k-style sling inlet in the buttstock.

In any event, it looks like a nice rifle. Congrats.

[jmoore]

I believe this to be a transitional Kar98b. Basically, it appears to have all the 98b features apart from a bent bolt handle, the scalloped recess in the stock for the bent bolt, and a K98k-style sling inlet in the buttstock.

In any event, it looks like a nice rifle. Congrats.

It does seem that way. But odd that, unlike most Mauser variants, there's very little info.

Oy, Cali-Steve: Made me look! But, no, only the usual German markings. Photos of that area to follow.