First time Garand build and problems –M1 smiths, please help! (very long)

[Brett]

Hello gents, I had an absolute great time yesterday building my first Garand. Years accumulating the tools and parts and I was finally ready to go. For the most part it went well, but I have a few problems that are keeping me for a rifle I’m ready to fire, I hope you can help.

I barreled three receivers yesterday for the first time. First was a 1.0 SA CMP grade C receiver onto an 11-42 CMP barrel I recrowned. It was hand tight at about 6:45. It took some “oomph” but it aligned well with the badger ordnance alignment gauges. Next I barreled a CMP Win-13 receiver (remember those from 2003? Like I said, I’ve been a few years in the making…) onto a WRA barrel that was hand tight at 6:30. As I expected it torqued on and aligned without as much muscle as the first barrel. I saved my best project rifle for last—I’m going to try and make a good match rifle. I had a nice 2.1 SA CMP grade A receiver I hand picked from the south store (when I got it home there was a very faint SA 12-65 rebuild, so I guess it should really have been a grade B. Regardless, it is a very nice receiver) and a new in wrap SA 11-51 barrel. These two were hand tight just past 7:00, I figured it would be the hardest to torque and align. It was, so much so I had to get about a 16-inch extension to the Brownells actions wrench to finish it off. Is it common to have to use a breaker bar to finish torqueing? I was a bit concerned with how much pressure I was putting on the assembly. Also, for any of you considering an action wrench, buy the Brownells. I first got the one from Midway because it was cheaper and it was obvious why as soon as I took it out of the box. I immediately sent it back and bought Brownell’s version. It was well worth it!

I then proudly set to work in the garage to finish off the rest of my ‘match’ gun following McKee’s assembly guide and referencing Kuhnhausen’s manual as well. Before I barreled the 2.1 SA I lapped in a NIW bolt following the procedures and headspaceing in the McKee book. I checked headspace again after installing the barrel and I was just short—just a couple thousandths short of closing on a Clymer or USGI GO gauge. I lapped the bolt a bit more as McKee advised. It is now at minimum headspace. It just barely closes on the Clymer and is just shy of closing on the USGI. From conversations here I thought the Clymer would be the more conservative gauge, I was surprised the bolt closed on it and not the GI one. Anyway, I’m satisfied with headspace now that it closed on at least one and don’t feel I need to lap anymore, please let me know if I’m off base. Assembling the rest of the parts was relatively easy, but slow. All my parts are NOS/as new and the fit is tight. It took a while to convince the rear hand guard tab to fit in the lower band (the stock is as new from Jeff McClintock, beautiful!).

My first problem occurred with the op-rod, it fails the tilt test. I tried two other rods and both failed in the same spot, so I’m thinking it is not the rod. When retracting the op rod the last half-inch of travel grinds to a halt. It is possible to fully retract it but it takes significant pressure. I’d like to think the problem is it needs some “breaking in” with the Parkerizing on every surface, but the amount of force required is just to much for me to think that is the case. McKee’s book doesn’t provide much help here (“Get another op rod”) so I read up again in Kuhnhausen. Lots of info there to try and find were the misalignment occurs and how to bend the rod. I forced the rod back and forth multiple times trying to indentify the friction point. Left and right it looks to be centered fine (I still have not installed the lower band pin as McKee suggested, but lower band it tight in place). The vertical bend of the rod I’m not so sure about. I think the problem is occurring with the op-rod saddle bearing down on the bottom of the barrel during the last half inch of travel. Second guess would be somewhere with the tab. “Feeling” how the op-rod slows down the problem feels like it more in the rear than up front with the cylinder. I was hoping that since the rod and barrel both have 100% finish I would be able to see any wear marks after cycling a few times to ID the conflict. Removing this op-rod is also a pain! It takes a lot of pressure to lift up on the handle when aligned with the slot and I actually have to get a screwdriver to pry it “out” to start the rotation out of the grove (the two other older op-rods were also tight but did not requiring prying). Is this due to it being NIW versus worn out or another symptom of my op-rod fit problem? I think the later. After inspecting the finish I was surprised not to find any wear on the op-rod or receiver. I surely thought there would be some with the amount of drag it takes to fully retract the last half-inch. I repeated the process again trying to locate friction. It still looked like saddle to barrel to me. This time a VERY thin line of wear the last half inch along the bottom of the barrel and just a small spot of finish wear right at the edge of the op rod saddle, at the flat part that contacts the receiver when fully retracted. So I think this is my problem. Do I have a vertical op rod bend problem? As I said it was a NIW rod so I’d hoped for now problems, but who knows what happened to it in 60 years (D35382 rod). What can I do know?

Second problem is stock fit. Trigger housing and guard are both NIW and the stock is as new. The stock has been on a rifle before, so I would not think there would be any trouble with the fit or final inletting. When I went to lock the trigger group into place the trigger guard stopped with friction just as the hook was at the end of the trigger. “Great!” I thought, this would be a nice tight stock and a good one for my match rifle. Boy is it tight! I literally am not strong enough to close it. I wacked with a rubber mallet and it didn’t close. I applied 186 pounds of down force of the rifle to try and force it in (don’t embarrass me by asking how I know that, it took enough courage to try that hard on this beauty!). That will just barely get the hook to touch metal at the bottom of the housing, but about 3/16” forward of were the hook “hooks” (under no tension the hook usually hits metal about 1/16” forward of its engagement area). I tried applying the pressure on a more forward portion of the guard to stretch it out but no luck. The trigger group and receiver lock up fine without the stock. The trigger group works in another rifle but is still tight. The stock does not work in another rifle or trigger housing. So I at least know I have a stock problem compounded by a brand new trigger guard. The stock has a DAS so it has been closed on a rifle before, were they really that tight when brand new? I think the most pressure is occurring on the bottom of the magazine portion of the housing, the part to the most rear. That is where I’m starting to see the most “new” compression in the stock. Any advice? I don’t want to start removing any wood unless that is the only option. Any other tricks to lock the tightest trigger housing you’ve ever seen?

One last bit—the follower I bought was NIW and still in two pieces. No problem I thought, the ordnance manuals show how to hit it to tap it in place. Like everything else yesterday, it just didn’t want to play. I guess I could pull out the 100-pound hammer and just start whacking away to solve my problems, but I just didn’t want to force anything. Any tricks to assembling a follower? Just whack it even harder with a hammer? It’s a bit awkward to hold while hitting.

I can’t wait to get this thing shooting. It looks great! I put NM sights on it as well. I started collecting parts for it with the thought of a “brand new” rifle then the CMP Greeks came out! I couldn’t help but feeling like an SA employee yesterday, it was just a great time other than the few frustrations. Sorry this is so long, thanks for making it all the way though and I look forward to your advice and help,

Brett

Information

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[Ernie]

It sounds like none of your operating rods fit the new combination you have built - true? Are you doing the test with the action outside of the stock? If yes then I suspect your rod is not properly bent. It is highly unlikely you can hand bend it to shape and its probably best to get it to someone like Jim Schwartz. I suspect you have tried this op rod on your other actions, if so did you get the same response? If yes then I believe there is something wrong with the bends. It strikes me unusual that the others would work on other actions and not this one. I trust you checked the tab raceway on the side of the receiver to make certain there is no damage that is not allowing it to travel freely.

Regarding the stock, I have had that happen to me before. I have found (depending on the humidity) that a stock that has not had an action in it for quite some time will swell and cause the latch problem that you are describing. My recommendation would be to initially find a trigger guard that has wear to the lugs and see if it will lock. Once the action is in the rifle for awhile and the humidity stabilizes you will most likely find that the new guard will now lock with decent force. I would resist taking wood off the bottom of the stock until last resort. If it has indeed swelled due to humidity then when you take wood out you will find it will be sloppy once compressed and dry. Not a good situation.

Regarding the follower, I have put the nose piece into its groove and taken a decent rubber hammer and wacked on the back end. Never had a problem putting one together but I have only done 2 or 3. I fooled around a lot the first time until I "pre-started" the process but putting the narrow end in first.

Hope this is some help. I have been in the same situation a time or two myself. Good luck

[Mark in Rochester]

Brett - it appears that there is to much wood for the lock up - I recall an article quoting Art Tuttle that he rejected receivers every week due to the receiver cracking from to much force from closing. Suggest you get a small metal plate attach sand paper to it and sand the stock on the 10 degree flats- be careful not to change the angle and count your strokes say 10 or 15 per side. Note your progress by installing the trigger group back in stock with upper present and observe the distance from the trigger guard tip to the latching point- when you have a distance approximating the picture on page 205 of Kuhnhausen you should be good - I would allow a little more distance for wood compression

[Brett]

Thanks for the help so far, I've done some more troubleshooting:

I know I do not have an op-rod problem. My NIW rod works fine in another rifle, passes the tilt test with flying colors. I tried a fourth op-rod in my new rifle set up and still have the same problem. I removed the gas cylinder and front hand guard but still have the friction build up. I can also visually confirm the lower band is not rubbing on the op-rod tube as well. The only two points that can be grinding the op-rod to a halt are the saddle/barrel contact and the tab/track area. I believe the problem is in the op-rod track. A good rifle I’m comparing allows the op-rod a very small “wiggle” the entire length of track, but my new build only does for some of it. As it gets to the last ½” (about where the end of the handle first approaches the release cut away) friction increases and any play or wobble is gone. However, the op-rod track looks, feels and sounds flawless. There is some very slight wear to the Parkerization from when the receiver was previously shot after the 12-65 rebuild. There are no areas in the finish wear that are abnormal, it is quite even. The wear is so slight it still has the “chatter” wear marks about every 1/8” you see before it completely wears the finish off smooth. All 4 op-rods have the same problem, so I don’t think it’s a tab issue. I’ve gauged as much as of the channel as I could but found nothing out of the ordinary or different from my sample rifle. So now I’m stuck and out of ideas. I still need some help here.

The stock has been stored in air-conditioning for at least 3 years, but from what I understand in a storage unit for who knows how long before that. It is likely swollen from humidity. Does it remain in a swollen state even if taken out of the humidity? It is not tight side to side (when sliding the receiver into the stock), just latching in the trigger group. Using a worn in trigger group gives a funny result: It first gets tight about ¼” past the end of the trigger. It takes a good amount of pressure to get it to just about halfway down the trigger, then it suddenly POPS! into place. The same trigger group doesn’t do that with other stocks. I guess it’s just the flats on the trigger guard lugs finally coming into contact and relieving the high pressure. I’ll try Ernie’s advice and try the worn group in the stock for a while to build some more compression then move to wood removal as a worst case.

Now the poor follower. I must apologize to the group, I think I’ve taken a perfectly good USGI part out of the supply system. Even with a rubber hammer and wood blocks I still managed to bend the blasted thing. The good news is I know where to hit and it barely takes any force. Place the hook in the hole and the slide portion will not quite be in the groove. A small nip will be protruding up from the hook end. Give this a light tap and it snaps the slide portion into the groove while keeping the hook engaged. The hammer blow should be in the direction of the length of the follower, like you were going to hammer a bullet into the barrel. I was hitting about 45 degrees off from that like the ordnance pictures show. It’s together now but the bend causes a bit of binding on the follower and it doesn’t slide freely.

Thanks again and looking forward to figuring out this receiver problem,

Brett

[kurt varga]

Brett, i'm not sure but i think that your niw barrel would have a short chamber and would need to be reamed to headspace bolt, not wear the back of the bolt lugs down to make it headspace. hope someone else will help out here kurt

[kurt varga]

make very sure that your barrel is timed perfect, if it is off more than a couple degrees with the gas cyl in place your op rod will bind on the way back, with the tab on the op rod being new it could be on the high (fat) side of the specs and you might have a tight channel. i would check barrel again for timing, being your first time it's not hard to be off a little

[Brett]

Thanks Kurt. I don't think I removed too much off the lugs during lapping but I guess I won't know for some time! Has anyone installed a NIW USGI barrel that headspaced without finish reaming?

When I installed the barrel I was about 30 minutes off from parallel on the gauges, but I will remeasure if all else fails. However, I do not think it is a barrel alignment problem. Even with the gas cylinder and front hand guard off, I still have the friction.

Thanks,

Brett

[Dan Shapiro]

I would also recommend checking the index of the barrel. I had a rifle fail the tilt test and on close examination, the inside hump of the op rod was hitting the side of the sight base as it came rearwards.

[Mark in Rochester]

badger ordnance alignment gauges how did you align with rulers or levels

if you used a machinists level

L. S. Starrett Catalog

you can achieve alignment better than the garand spec which is +/- 20 minutes = 0.66 degrees

the level graduations are 0.005" per 12 inches

this yields an alignment angle of 0.0004 degrees

if your alignment is correct and

your op-rod passes the tilt test on other rifles

but binds on the new rifle I would suspect the receiver

I would measure with shim stock the width of the guide stud track to see if it is uniform

Also per Kuhnhausen p 97

"the 15 deg rotational draw should not be exceded "

when you say 7 O'clock are you indicating that you were 30 deg off alignment?

[kurt varga]

i am no gunsmith, but i do my own work. i have done 3 niw barrels and had to finish ream to headspace the bolts i wanted to use. reaming does take out a few thous. allowing the round to move forward in the chamber giving the base of the case a little more support, by not reaming you are pushing the round back leaving more of the base unsupported (thats the way i see it but again i am not a gun smith) GOT TO ASK GUS FISHER KURT