NPM carbine

[bobg]

I just came across a NPM carbine ser# 1495xxx and a Underwood barrel dated 6-43 with early features including a type 1 stock. It appears to be all correct and original except I question one part. The recoil plate is marked PR-B and is a type 3 plate. I find no reference to IBM sending that part to NPM and also wonder if maybe that type 3 plate might be a little to late to be correct. Its wear pattern matches exactly with the rear of the receiver so I assume its been there for a long time, maybe forever? Any one have thoughts on whether or not it might be correct?
Thank you.

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Bruce McAskill]

Your serial number dates to about June 1943. A type 3 recoil plate is too late for your carbine. IBM didn't start production till August 1943 and only used the type 3 plate. Someone changed the plate to maybe help improve accuracy as it gives a better lockup.

[bobg]

Thank you for the info. Now that creates my next problem. Should I just leave it or replace it with a "correct" one.

[painter777]

Hello Bob,
You'll have to send it to me and I'll get pictures of it for you.
I could just hang on to it.......... Give that some thought ;-)

NPM carbine ser# 1495xxx

NPM serial block started with 1,450,000. Would make this one roughly production # 45,000 + or -

NPM production per War Baby, from what I can find, would put this one Mid to late July-1943.

Start 1,450,000
Production:
Feb 43......... 1,320
March 43...... 5,182
April 43........ 7,284
May 43........ 10,008
June 43....... 15,000 >Year to date total= 38,794
July 43........ 24,004 > Now totaling 62,798

Like Bruce, I'd want to believe it's been swapped out.... But Ruth states use of the Type 2, Early until Fall of 43. The Straight back Type III/New Recoil plate came in to use Fall 43.

Then with all that said Riesch says the type III/straight back Recoil plate came in to use between July and August of 1943.

I understand you can see long time wear patterns, and I know you know Carbines. It's just so close to the change over range under certain conditions.

Possible angle might be if your carbine was tied up during production and received a not yet documented parts transfer.
Ruth does show NPM getting both Type II and Type III plates from other makers.

Question is.... Where some or a few of the Recoil Plates NPM received from any of these below, Plates they had come in from their same transfer request?

Did Prime maker A request Recoil plates from Prime Maker C, in turn some of the plates Maker C passes along to Maker A, had been received from Maker B.

From Inland:
11-9-42 #50 Recoil plates. 4-13-43 #1 Recoil plate.
From QHMC:
3-10-43 #2,500 Recoil plates.
From RMC:
6-15-43 #5,000 Recoil plates.
From SG:
11-3-43 #30,000 Recoil plates
From Underwood:
9-2-43 Old Style (Type II) # 7,000 Recoil plates
10-1-43 Old Style (Type II ) # 10,000 Recoil plates
10-1-43 New Style (Type II ) # 5,000 Recoil plates
From WRA:
12-42 Old Style Type ( II ) # 500 Recoil Plates
8-18-43 New Style ( TYPE III ) # 2,000 Recoil Plates

Now if in the correct date range, What if some of the Plates sent from the above integrated parts, were from IBM?

Never say never in Carbine land when dates are close.
All in all just a small thing, no worries.

Hoping I've really got you confused now Bob, Cheers Buddy

Charlie

[bobg]

Thanks for the reply and no, I'm not confused. Just having a hard time trying to make up my mind which way to go. Darn'd if you do and darn'd if you don't. Guess I'll just leave it as is and tie another recoil plate on with a string and let the next owner figure it out.

[painter777]

Bob,
Remember how we met?
The old Spam infested Jouster forum.
I believe you were going by Bobbie back then.
By the way, Are you still in Nigeria ?
I still have the printed off e-mails from our first meet back in june 2006. When I got the .U. flip sight Inland from you. Still one of my favorites.

Back to your NPM.... IIRC,
Seems like I'd heard there was some use of Unmarked Type II Plates near your serial range.

Curious if the barrel has the NPM punch mark near the P proof stamp?

See member MPD1978 reply #6 Pictures in this link:

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=22106

Charlie-Painter777

[bobg]

Charlie,
I got one of those unmarked, type 2 recoil plates that you heard about. I'm just unsure if I want to use it.
The barrel has the punch mark as it should
No, I'm not in Nigeria, unless of course you have some money you want to part with.

[martin08]

I know this thread is old. But I also am looking at a PR-B recoil plate on an otherwise pristine and perfectly marked and matched in patina NPM Carbine with 1.54 mil serial.

The lady I bought it from said her dad came home from the Navy in 1954, hung the carbine over the fireplace, and never talked about it or the Korean War.

I pulled the recoil plate for the first time today, for some reason.

[bobg]

Thank you for that info. No, I didn't change it. Just had a feeling that it might be original.
It just looked it. Once in a while, something weird happens with carbines.
Thanks again.

[GunnyUSMC]

It could just be as simple as, sometime during your carbine’s service life, an Armorer replaced the recoil plate.