No. 4 (T) Paratroop Packing?

[tj214]

The No. 15 Transit Chest seems too large to have fit in a British airborne parachute drop container, so does anybody know how 4 (T)s went in with the paras? Watching a vid about the Arnhem CF last night got me wondering.

[Sapper740]

The British Central Landing Establishment developed all manner of drop panniers, containers, valises, and packing crates for the paratroops to be able to jump with their weapons and equipment. The topic is too broad to discuss here but as they developed containers for rifles, Bren Guns, PIATs, mortars, Welbikes, radios, blood supplies, ammunition, and P37 web gear it's almost a cert that they adapted some to drop No.4 MkI (T)'s. One drop container held 12 rifles and a 1,000 rounds of ammunition, the C.L.E. Mark I container was over 6 feet long and could carry 246.5 lbs. of equipment with the standard 28 foot parachute. David Gordon has a whole chapter devoted to supply dropping in his excellent book "EQUIPMENT OF THE WORLD WAR II TOMMY" Gordon's books are must buy for any serious collector of British Commonwealth weapons and kit.

[Alan de Enfield]

The British Central Landing Establishment developed all manner of drop panniers, containers, valises, and packing crates for the paratroops to be able to jump with their weapons and equipment. The topic is too broad to discuss here but as they developed containers for rifles, Bren Guns, PIATs, mortars, Welbikes, radios, blood supplies, ammunition, and P37 web gear it's almost a cert that they adapted some to drop No.4 MkI (T)'s. One drop container held 12 rifles and a 1,000 rounds of ammunition, the C.L.E. Mark I container was over 6 feet long and could carry 246.5 lbs. of equipment with the standard 28 foot parachute. David Gordon has a whole chapter devoted to supply dropping in his excellent book "EQUIPMENT OF THE WORLD WAR II TOMMY" Gordon's books are must buy for any serious collector of British Commonwealth weapons and kit.

I seem to remember reading that there was a 'padded carry bag' developed which was actually carried across the chest during the 'jump', and was dropped on a tether just before hitting the ground.
Was that for the No5 ?

[Sapper740]

[QUOTE=Alan de Enfield;545480]I seem to remember reading that there was a 'padded carry bag' developed which was actually carried across the chest during the 'jump', and was dropped on a tether just before hitting the ground.
Was that for the No5 ?[/QUOTE

There was a Rifle Valise for the No.4 and a Bren Gun Valise as well as a Sten Machine Carbine Leg Case and 2" Mortar case that the paratroopers jumped with. Both the Bren Gun Valise and the Rifle valise had two different methods of carry: a High carry and a Low carry but trials proved the high carry allowed better mobility in the aircraft so it was preferred. High carry required a canvas loop around the valise and the back of the jumper's neck and paratroopers were warned to hug the valise hard until under canopy else their neck would take the brunt of the weight of the weapon during the opening shock. All four valises and cases were lowered by rope to hang below to reduce the landing force. There was also a specially designed kit bag for para troops that had eyelets on the side as opposed to a rope closure at one end to give quicker access to the bag's contents after landing.

[tj214]

Strikes me (sorry about the pun) that a sniper rifle's sensitive optics would not enjoy getting smacked into the ground by a tethered and lightly padded valise released at too low a level, or in a decent wind, or at night (God forbid). I appreciate Sapper's reference to Gordon's equipment book, which I couldn't find available anywhere except eBay, where I just ordered Artiozen's last new copy (Artiozen comes through again!).

I assume, and may learn from Gordon's book, the rifle panniers or containers were well insulated from landing shock so could have safely landed precision devices such as 4 (T)s. On the other hand, dropzone confusion, parachute failures, hard container landings, etc., would seem to militate against the sniper getting too far removed from his essential tools, so maybe on-body carry was the preferred method for these specialists. Anybody know whether a parachute troops' rigging (as opposed to rigging a parachute) manual existed? Maybe in a sniper manual? This must have been specifically addressed somewhere.

Given the long operational life of the 4 (T) this must have remained a concern well in to the '50s at least.

[Peter Laidler]

They were container dropped. As for the delicate optics, then have no fear......... The telescope was tested for 'fastness' after it had been overhauled and so presumably, after ite manufacture. Thie was done with the recoil setting on the Layer (or Enfiield rest as it is commonly known) set to hard. This would more than compensate for a hard landing by the container

[Sapper740]

David Gordon also published "Tommy: Uniforms, Weapons and Equipment of the Airborne Forces" in 1998. His books always sell out quickly but I've found a used copy on Amazon which I've ordered. Hopefully it will have more specific information on how the No.4 MkI (T) was delivered.

[Sapper740]

Here are some pics of the padded base of the drop container that was dropped separately from the jumper. This particular one, having been made in Australia could have been attached to their uniquely designed "Storepedo" which could either be dropped from a bomb bay or attached to the wing of a fighter aircraft for resupply after a landing. Pictures courtesy of David Gordon's website "visualcollector.com

[Surpmil]

Rightly or wrongly many snipers seem to have disliked removing the scope from the rifle once zeroed; witness for example the well known photo from Italy of a No.4(T) with the backsight removed so that the rifle could be cleaned from the breech without removing the scope. On a trials T I had there was cleaning rod impact damage to the face of the bolthead no doubt for the same reason.

So were the scopes removed and placed in their Cases, No.8 before being packed in the containers with the rifles or were they left on for rapid deployment?

From the photos of airdrop containers it doesn't look like much trouble was taken with padding although from the SMLE's shown the photos must be fairly early in the game.

[GeeRam]

My understanding having talked to a number of 1st AB Recce veterans (as well as other unit vets during Arnhem anniversaries in Holland) several decades ago, was that they did remove the scopes and jumped with their scopes packed in their scope cans, and then re-fitted the scopes to the rifles that they carried in rifle drop bags. They left the transit chests behind, to be brought out later, which didn't happen of course as the operation didn't quite go to plan... Of course not all dropped, as some went in by gliders, and likely they didn't remove their scopes, but that's a guess.