Way OT but some might know...

[RJW NZ]

Seeing as local boy Peter Jackson - director/lord of the rings- is an aviation buff and in the middle of remaking 'The Dam Busters', I decided to pull out my old copy of The Dam Busters by Paul Brickhill from 1951 and read it through again. Its a really great edge of the seat read about the usually suicidal attacks these guys went on.

On page 209 it says, 'Meantime, the Americans were starting to produce 'Tallboys' (sic 8 tons/16,000 lbs) and were evolving a new (and very efficient) method of making 'Grand Slams' (sic 10 tons/22,000 lbs).

Does anyone here know of any information available about the American experience with their bombs?

In case anyone is not familiar with these the tallboy was a a supersonic deep penetrator, with angled fins to make it spin like a rifle bullet for stability, that would go 100 feet and more in the ground, or penetrate 20 and more feet of reinforced concrete submarine pens, dropped from 18,000 feet from Lancasters, which was only half of the altitude ,40,000 feet, these bombs were supposed to drop from to do their job properly. Even with 4 - 1650 plus hp merlins the mighty lancaster couldn't drag the bombs any higher.

The grandslam was a bigger version, a penetrator and blast bomb designed for high accuracy, penetrating very thick bunkers or deep underground where the V weapons were being made and launched. These were the heaviest bomb loads per plane during WW2.

The squadron became so accurate that bombs regularly hit the target dead center from 20,000 feet, day or night, and subsequent bombs would go right in the same crater, The designer often said he preferred near misses of 50 feet as the damage from underground explosions would exceed a dead on hit.

617 squadron became very famous, breaking the dams was a raid akin to Doolittles raid on Tokyo in that it was one of the first real strikes back after many defeats, and a huge public moral booster.

Peter Jackson made the news here in NZ a few weeks ago when he rolled out a full size repro lancaster for engine runs next to some old quonset huts at a small airfield where the public could see them from across the field. Looks like it did back in the day.

This should be one heck of a movie...

Information

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[harry mac]

Any idea when this film will be on general release? Does it have a web site yet?

[Bill H]

I have not read of any American WWII era bombs equivalent to the British tallboy or grand slams, and I doubt that we had any aircraft capable of carrying them.

As to the remake of the movie, that is a shame, as the remakes are invariably terrible compared to the original. "Memphis Belle" is a good example.

[Dave]

Memphis Belle was made twice? Or are you referring to the original WW11 AAF film made by a later famous Hollywood guy? That film was actually made on the last three flights/missions. I think Dillion still sells it.

[smle-man]

Didn't the dam busters use a drum shaped bomb that was spun up and then skipped into the dam?

[Harlan (Deceased)]

Didn't the dam busters use a drum shaped bomb that was spun up and then skipped into the dam?

Yes, that's them.

[John Kepler]

Didn't the dam busters use a drum shaped bomb that was spun up and then skipped into the dam?

Yep! But you don't put together a Squadron of "All-Stars" for a single mission, and then throw them away! Guy Gibson's 617 Squadron, 5th Bombing Group, became legendary for "special missions" with special weapons throughout WW II....dropping Dr. Barnes-Wallis' OTHER creation (he designed the "dam-busting" skip-bomb, in addition to the "Wellington" bomber for DeHavilland), the "Earthquake" bombs. 617 Squadron sank the "Tirpitz", destroyed the sub-pens at La Harve, and breached the Dortmund-Ems canal. Their "day job" was highly specialized pathfinding and target marking for 5 Group (earning them the nickname from the "real" RAF Pathfinders as the "Lincolnshire Poachers")...a bombing organization that became VERY adept at starting Firestorms....5 Group led the attack on Dresden...guess who led 5 Group to the target and accurately marked it?

[VET70]

Towards the end of the war the U S was developing their own versions of Tallboy and Grand Slam using the British drawings and testing them with British fuzes. The U S had a model of a 44,000 pounder. "By V-J Day several samples of the experimental model were ready for testing whenever the B-36 bomber became available." (From "The Ordnance Department: Planning Munitions for War" a volume in the series "United States Army in World War II" page 471.

[John Kepler]

I have not read of any American WWII era bombs equivalent to the British tallboy or grand slams,

Sure we did! You need a trip to the National Museum of the US Air Force! We manufactured copies of both the Tall Boy and the Grand Slam!

and I doubt that we had any aircraft capable of carrying them.

We made this little airplane you may or may not have heard of called the "B-29" that was more than capable of carrying large bombs, including the Tall Boy, which it did on numerous occassions.....post-war, they were carried in the B-36. It was not only capable of carrying them, but was able to drop them from the altitudes that Dr. Barnes-Wallis intended!

[PrivatePaula]

I also remember bombs that 'rolled' over the water till it crashed into the dam....