Snider loads

[koldt]

Has anybody done any loads for their Snider-Enfields using smokeless?

If got a couple duplex loads that I'm told work well, but I've got soooo much powder sitting around I'm looking to use some of it.
Especially some bulk canister stuff that is close to Unique. Large flake, slow burn.

I haven't fired mine yet, just doin' some research.

This pre-1900 stuff is all new to me.

Thanks.

Information

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[Stevo]

koldt,
My Father's been shooting Sniders for the last 45 years. Every time he hears about someone using a smokeless load in one, he starts to twitch.

He's got some good info on black powder loads, if you'd like it.

Stevo

[Rick]

koldt,
My Father's been shooting Sniders for the last 45 years. Every time he hears about someone using a smokeless load in one, he starts to twitch.

He's got some good info on black powder loads, if you'd like it.

A lot of people use BP in their venerated old guns, but if you don't need the authenticity of the stink and the cleanup, it isn't necessary. All that is required is common sense in not blowing your valued historical firearm up. The smokeless powder manufacturers have even developed smokeless powders particularly for that purpose.

I have several surplus firearms that are from the BP days; not one has seen a BP load while in my possession and never will. All my enjoyment comes from the shooting of these firearms - not the involved cleaning that follows afterwards, or the stink of black powder. And I definitely do NOT want to be disassembling them each time after shooting to give them the boiling water cleanup treatment.

On a quasi-related note, compared Pyrodex to Triple 7 yesterday in my muzzlestuffers (who DO get BP substitutes). Using the standard top end hunting load for my .54 with a 415 grain Minie ball, 120 Gr. of Pyrodex RS gave me an average velocity of about 1400 fps, while the Triple 7 gave me 1600. I seem to recall that Pyrodex used to give me about 1600 when I first tried it years ago. This lot of Pyrodex has been in my powder locker for about 10 years, so I wonder if it is starting to change chemically and losing energy in doing so?

Anyways, my view is that if shooting BP instead of smokeless really turns your crank, then fill your boots and have your fun. But you don't NEED to shoot BP and you lose nothing (in my opinion) by sticking to the smokeless solution.

Those loads out of a T/C Hawken with that crescent shaped brass buttplate will really rock your world...

[muzzle flash]

I put about 100 rounds of black powder loads through my matini 577/450 a year and just hate cleaning the thing. I also would love to shoot smokeless loads but have not found any that I feel safe with.

[Steve]

Has anyone tried American Pioneer Powders yet? It's available in Canada but pricey. http://www.americanpioneerpowder.com

...

Click on Products. SIR or Russells sells Shockey's Gold at $45/lb but there are other, less expensive alternatives.

Edited to add: I've contacted them for a listing of CDN dealers. Shockey's Gold is apparently a more highly refined composition and the price reflects it. Their regular powders were touted as being clean burning with 1000s of shots fired and NO residue build up. Measures the same as std BP. Clean up with water. I'll let you know their reply.

[koldt]

Yikes, $45 a pound. And I think it would take a little more than what I'm used to with my 38 @ 2.8grs per round.

I've got about 90 pounds of this cannister grade large flake pistol/shotgun powder that I would love to be able to use.

How about I send someone a half pound and they do some experimentation for me Or maybe we could just fill it to the top, scrape off the excess and stuff in the bullet

Now back to reality, does BP require the soap and water clean up, or can the barrel be cleaned in a 'regular' way with a bore rod, oil patch and brush? I've got a couple gallons of Breakfree and love slopping that stuff around.

[Claven2]

Water cleaning is only if you use black powder or smokeless with mercuric or corrosive primers.

If you use modern primers and smokeless, you can clean like your other rifles.

There are powders on the market that are designed to use up case volume at low pressure. Hodgdon makes them if I recall. Suggest you start there. Remaining case volume can be topped up with neutral filler.

[Andy]

I have shot plenty of smokeless in my Snider as have many others. True, you can't be as brainless as you can with blackpowder (where full cases are generally safe), but if you are competent to reload smokeless in 30/06 (where mistakes can be costly), you can reload smokless for the Snider.

I posted a ton of info over on http://p223.ezboard.com/fbritishmilitariaforumsfrm2

I find that either a very few grains of a moderately fast pistol powder like Unique, or about 30.0 grs of a slow pistol powder like H4227 worked well for me.

[Claven2]

I have shot plenty of smokeless in my Snider as have many others. True, you can't be as brainless as you can with blackpowder (where full cases are generally safe), but if you are competent to reload smokeless in 30/06 (where mistakes can be costly), you can reload smokless for the Snider.

I posted a ton of info over on http://p223.ezboard.com/fbritishmilitariaforumsfrm2

I find that either a very few grains of a moderately fast pistol powder like Unique, or about 30.0 grs of a slow pistol powder like H4227 worked well for me.

Did you use a filled for the hollow space left in the case, or are the powders you're advocating reasonably resistant to positional sensitivity to not matter much?

[Andy]

Did you use a filled for the hollow space left in the case, or are the powders you're advocating reasonably resistant to positional sensitivity to not matter much?

This could become a very long discussion (and maybe it should).

I worked up four loads that I have employed in 24 ga Fiocchi shotgun hulls (some with a shot wad acting as a sabot), and in the brass Magtech 24 ga shell. All loads were under a 480 gr custom cast bullet, and are quite mild, my objective being 1100-1200 fps. None used filler, except the shot wad which took up all empty space, and only the Unique load was seemingly unaffected by position. I found H4227 the slowest powder that would burn consistently at the low pressures I employed (~12,000 psi) - slower powders tended to just spit out the bullet along with mostly unburned powder.

Unique - 18.0 grs - 1150 fps
SR4759 - 35.0 grs - 1100 fps
AA5744 - 35.0 grs - 1100 fps
H4227 - 35.0 grs - 1100 fps

I intend to try some IMR Trail Boss (15.0 grs) this winter. Trail Boss is VERY "fluffy" - 15.0 grs would consume as much space as 30 grs of Unique and 40-45 grs of the others and might be the perfect powder. I'll report back.