No. 3 Mk 1* and M1917 difference

[Pattern14]

What parts are different between the No.3 and the M1917:
1. Barrel
2. Stock?
3. ?
4. ?
5. ?
etc.

Information

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[Chuckindenver]

are you talking about the P14??? or a SMLE rifle..

[JGaynor]

are you talking about the P14??? or a SMLE rifle..

The "P14"

Rifle No. 3 Mk 1* has been the correct nomenclature for the "P14" ( Pattern 14) since 1926.

By that time all the No.3 rifles that were going to be made had been and most of them were stamped "P-14" on the stock. So the popular vernacular retained the use of the British Pattern Room designation. In the mid 20's the British placed it in its rightful place with an official nomenclature No. 3 Mk1 *. The sniper versions were similarly redsignated (but not necessarily remarked) as Rifle No.3 Mk 1* (T) or Rifle No. 3 Mk 1 (T) A depending on whether they were equipped with an M1918 or Aldis telescopic sight.

The Rifle No. 1 Mk 3 is the classic Lee Enfield also known as the SMLE (Short Magazine Lee Enfield). While the Mk 3 is probably the most widely available variant there were a number of other marks and variations in the Rifle No.1 series.

Regards,

Jim

[Chuckindenver]

if so heres what i can think of off the top of my head.
barrel, stock, magazine box follower, follower spring, trigger guard, bolt, extractor, front sight, rear sight, rear sight spring, bayonet lug,
rear handguard, rear handguard retaining ring.
i think that about covers it.
though other parts may fit, they will be marked different or have a different type finish.

[Pattern14]

I was referring to the Pattern 14 vs the M1917. Why would the bayonet lug be different when the M1917 bayonet fits the P14 already?

[Alfred]

Bolt lugs are different, one can be fitted to the other but not the other way around without some modifications.
M1917 bolts have been fitted to P14 rifles rebored for 7.92X57.
Actions of this sort were available some years ago, with shot out 8mm barrels in place..

[Patrick Chadwick]

Chuckindenver listed:
barrel, stock, magazine box follower, follower spring, trigger guard, bolt, extractor, front sight, rear sight, rear sight spring, bayonet lug,
rear handguard, rear handguard retaining ring.

I think this list can be shortened a bit.

Acoording to Stratton, P.37 (I have an M1917, but no P14 to check this out) the external barrel dimensions were the same - sounds plausible, as the manufacturers probably used the same barrel blanks for M1917 as for the P14.
So I see no reason why the foresight block should be any different, and indeed Stratton says they are interchangeable (P.91).

Likewise, with the same external barrel dimensions and taking the same bayonet, the nose caps and bayonet lugs should also be interchangeable.

The foresight blades for P14, M1917 and SMLE are all physically interchangeabe, although the markings may be different (Stratton P.93), because of the (presumably) different heights of the sighting line between the P14/M1917 and the SMLE.

Likewise, the backsight springs are identical, and the backsights themselves are physically interchangeable, but differently calibrated.

So I think the list can be shortened to:
barrel, stock, magazine box follower, follower spring, trigger guard, bolt, extractor, rear handguard, rear handguard retaining ring.

And, because the barrel dimensions are the same, P14 handguards can be fitted to an M1917 and vice versa (Stratton, PP 72-74).

Don't forget, this was 20th century, heavily rationalized mass production, not 19th century individual fitting, so the manufacturers only changed the parts affected by the difference between .303 rimmed and 30-06 rimless and the elimination of the volley sights.

Patrick

[Chuckindenver]

try to use a P14 bayonet on a M1917 and a !7 bayonet on a P14, let me know how it works.
the rear sights use different springs, and one is set for .303, they other for 30-06.
also.
the same reason why the rear handguard and ring are different.
will they fit the rifle? sure. are they correct? no. will they perform correctly? no.
though the rest of the parts will interchange, they are marked differently, buttplate, swivels ect.
takes some time in messing with both rifles,
i have a saying,
do it right, or leave it alone.
many times iv looked at 17 for sale at a show, noticed the mix of 14 bits, had the guy just been patiant and found the right parts for the right rifle it would likely fetch the price he was asking.
youll find more 14 parts here, as a lot of DP 14,s were on the market 15 or so years ago, and were cheap, guys picked them up and stripped them for the receivers to build big bore hunting rifles.
17 parts however, are a bit tougher to find.
unless its a barrel, more 17 barrels available the 14,s
over the years iv had a couple hundred 17 barrels come and go.
iv had my hands on 2 P14 barrels.

[Pattern14]

try to use a P14 bayonet on a M1917 and a !7 bayonet on a P14, let me know how it works.

I have a M1917 Remington bayonet on an Eddystone P14 and it fits fine. Don't know about the P14 bayonet on the M1917 rifle since I don't have either.

[Dan Wilson]

P-14 bayonets work just fine on my 17's, I have several of both and they will all work on my rifles and my kids as well.

A huge bunch of our early "1917" bayonets were just redirected bayonets for P-14's, they just stamped out the British markings.

Dan