Next German Service Pistol

[villiers]

This, so they tell me is supposed to be IT:-

Five-seveN Tactical

I´m only allowed TWO hand guns here, but have a large number of Lugers that are legal owing to the fact that I can have any number of tops to one registered grip. So am waiting for the FN as my second choice.

Information

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[jmoore]

Its only worthwhile if you can get the AP ammo loaded to full spec. The US loads are basically equivalent to 22 magnum w/ no hardened penetrator bullets allowed, except for M&P sales. Case life for reloading will be short, as the shoulder is blown way forwards upon firing from all weapons tried so far...

Asides from the mag capacity, I'm really not impressed w/ either the P90 or the Five seveN pistol. If the P90 was in a different caliber, it would be great, its much more ergonomic than the F2000 cheap AUG knockoff.

The pathetic terrorist who recently used a Five-seveN pistol made most of his kills on wounded personnel that didn't escape being head shot. Other reports of the round's terminal ballistics are generally not favorable. Its only real advantages are light recoil and armor penetration as compared to other handgun rounds.

Not that I pretend to be any great expert on the round: I've shot some and read more, that's it. My opinion is worth what you paid!

[villiers]

Yours is the first report I´ve heard of and is first hand. H&K say that they´re working on a sub calibre too but have not heard anything of that yet either.

Not too optimistic now. Think I´ll stay with my Lugers ...

[jmoore]

H&K say that they´re working on a sub calibre too but have not heard anything of that yet either.

Think I´ll stay with my Lugers ...

I think the H&K round is the 4.6x30 40gr projectile at about 1900fps. Eh, whats so better about that than a 7.62x25 at around 1600-1700 fps (Czech load)!? I guess in a PDW w/ a really high cyclic rate it might be more controllable, but in a semi-auto pistol? Leave me out!

Lugers are great w/ good hot ammo (+P in U.S. terms) and good mags. I just don't like the safety (as a primarily left handed shooter). Thought about trying to adapt a Docter Optic sight to one, no progress yet as suitably cheap reblued mismatched Luger hasn't surfaced in front of me lately. Tactical Luger Accessory Store- Can't find it on the internet thing...

[villiers]

I think the H&K round is the 4.6x30 40gr projectile at about 1900fps. Eh, whats so better about that than a 7.62x25 at around 1600-1700 fps (Czech load)!? I guess in a PDW w/ a really high cyclic rate it might be more controllable, but in a semi-auto pistol? Leave me out!

Lugers are great w/ good hot ammo (+P in U.S. terms) and good mags. I just don't like the safety (as a primarily left handed shooter). Thought about trying to adapt a Docter Optic sight to one, no progress yet as suitably cheap reblued mismatched Luger hasn't surfaced in front of me lately. Tactical Luger Accessory Store- Can't find it on the internet thing...

Some years back (about 30) ZFs were plentiful in Germany (and cheap as chips), so these ZF Lugers were quite often to be found. Don´t see them around these days.

[jmoore]

Its not that these weapons are bad or anything, its just that they're quite specialized. For unexpected encounters w/ foes wearing body armor, in situations that a front line weapon isn't called for, then its OK. (!???!)

Oh, and the pistol is just the backup to the PDW!

[arado]

FN reinvented the .30 Mauser. A TT33 Tokarev will do the same. Gary

[jmoore]

Hmmm, a P90 in .30 Mauser...Sounds right interesting.

[arado]

I am enamored with the TT33. Screw a bunch of Czech ammo. I have found the Chinese very consistent and reliable @ 1600fps The Yugo or Chinese issue pistols work. Nobody walks out of the sight picture. Gary

[Patrick Chadwick]

Villers, I have not yet got a pistol. But if I ever do, then a Luger is the thing. How accurate are they with a ZF fitted?

I have a couple of ZFs, but like JMoore, I haven't found a pistol that has a sensible price as a shooter, instead of an antique. And how would you rate them comparatively as shooters: ARI vs Navy vs standard? I have shot an ARI, and it whipped my arm right back over my head (OK; slight exaggeration, but that's what it felt like) so I am not sure that the extra long barrel is 100% advantageous.

It looks like the Navy version has the longest sightline (am I right?) but they are firmly in the hen's teeth category for rarity.

Patrick