Real or ?

[Patrick Chadwick]

Dear Enfield experts,

I am neither buying nor selling this rifle. But I would like an opinion as to whether it is/could be genuine. As a non-expert, I can only observe that it does not appear to match what I can find in the "Lee Enfield Story".

http://egun.de/market/item.php?id=2539987

Patrick

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Thunderbox]

It looks like a 100% standard and genuine L39A1 military target rifle.

The magazine might possibly be a modern replica, but thats judging by the colour in a small photograph.

These were mostly held/used by RAF shooting clubs. The clubs later sold them off, so its quite possible that rifle has originated from Gutersloh or Bruggen air force bases.

P.s. the L39 illustrated in the "Lee Enfield Story" (depending which edition you have seen) is fitted with a No8 butt and a .303 magazine. The rifles were issued without sights and magazines. Clubs normally fitted standard Parker Hale or AJ parker target sights. Since the rifle was a target rifle, often a .303 mag was used as a single-loading platform. However, many/most L39s were later fitted with 7.62mm magazines.

In this photo the bottom rifle is "as issued" from stores. The top rifle has sights, 7.62mm mag and a No8 butt fitted.

[Thunderbox]

More L39s in mostly standard confirguration:

[Strangely Brown]

Thunderbox, it's worth pointing out to the forum members that the rifle at the bottom of the picture is exactly how they came from Donnington to the unit that it was issued to.
I dare say that your example may be the only one in existance in a "virgin" state!

[Patrick Chadwick]

Thanks a lot for the information. I was misled into thinking that the correct version was only as shown in the book!

Patrick

P.S. How do they shoot?

[Strangely Brown]

Thanks a lot for the information. I was misled into thinking that the correct version was only as shown in the book!

Patrick

P.S. How do they shoot?

They shoot very well, I did hear that one was used to win the Queens final at Bisley one year but I have yet to collabarate that story.

[limpetmine]

Mine is extremely hard on the close. It's like it's got a bolt head fitted that is 3 sizes to long. I've not checked it yet, as there are others to shoot.....
(Brian, I need some guages, too!)
Now, the No.4 Conv. shoots sweet, and the adjustable diopter is just the ticket.

[Edward Horton]

Mine is extremely hard on the close. It's like it's got a bolt head fitted that is 3 sizes to long. I've not checked it yet, as there are others to shoot.....
(Brian, I need some guages, too!)
Now, the No.4 Conv. shoots sweet, and the adjustable diopter is just the ticket.

Limpetmine

Normally the unfired cartridge case is made approximately .002 (two thousandths) shorter than the minimum headspace setting for a given rifle. The L39/L42 minimum headspace is .002 tighter or shorter than SAAMI or American military 7.62 NATO.

You can use a RCBS Precision Mic to measure your cartridge case before and after firing to check “cartridge headspace” or how long your case is.



Below is minimum or “zero” headspace 1.630 for the .308 and American 7.62 NATO.
(Minimum headspace for the L39/L42 is 1.628)



Below a European surplus 7.62 NATO loaded cartridge that is only ½ thousandths shorter than SAAMI and U.S. military standards AND 1 ½ thousandths longer than L39/L42 minimum headspace.



Below a commercially loaded Winchester .308 cartridge and it is .002 shorter than minimum SAAMI and U.S. Military headspace of 1.630



NOTE: Reloading manuals warn you to NEVER shoot reloaded cases that were used for reduced loads again for full power hunting loads, example using reduced pistol or shotgun powder charges for low velocity plinking loads.

The reason for this is because the cartridge case gets shorter each time it is fired because the force of the firing pin hitting the primer actually makes the case shorter. (you will end up with excessive headspace or head gap clearance and have case head separations)

Now with the RCBS Precision Mic an unfired case and a fired spent primer and by dry firing this empty case and then remeasuring the case you can find out what headspace measurement your bolt closes normally without the rear of the case touching the boltface.

Your hard chambering ammunition may not meet British 7.62 ammunition standards and is causing the hard closing of your bolt.

The only thing standard with 7.62 NATO ammunition and the countries that manufacture this ammunition are the numbers “7.62”.

Signed
The excessive compulsive headspace fanatic.

[Brian Dick]

The HS gauges for the L39/L42 are much tighter than a standard 7.62 set. They are closer to what we U.S. Armorers would call "Match" specification here. I have one original set of British military gauges for them so bring your rifles when you visit and I'll be glad to check them for you. They are wonderful shooting rifles!

[harry mac]

I know of two L39s that were released into the wild in Niedersachsen. My regiment sold one to Waffen Majerke in Bergen and my mate bought the other one for DM500. At the time I didn't have 500 marks, so I bought the two new No4 Mk1/2s that were also sold off for the princely sum of DM 300 for the both of them.
I was most cheesed off about a year later when I found out that my mate had traded the rifle in with Frankonia Jagd in Hannover against a new Kahles scope They allowed him 500 marks on it towards the cost of the scope. At that time I could have afforded it but didn't know he was wanting to sell it.