What in the world did I get myself into?

[Cordite]

Hello. New guy, first post. Not sure what I have but I believe I have a Model 1903, because that's what it says on top of the receiver behind the front site, which is elevated. It says, "U.S. Springfield Armory, Model 1903. Under that is the serial 685268, which means (I think) it was manufactured in 1917. However, it is an old graycolored steel. The piece in front, which has the elevated site, is a greenish parkerized piece, as is the sight. The sight is stamped "R" on the base and the sight. The barrel is marked "RA" It has a stamped "bomb" with flames coming out of the top and has 1-42 under it. The bolt is black and has an "R" under the safety lug and under the bolt handle. When holding the riflle, there is another tab which says"On" and "Off" on either side. This is in addition to the safety on the bolt asembly(which says "ready" and "safe"). The trigger assembly and the floor plate are gray parkerized. There is a letter"R" on the stock, in the indentation on the left side. Also on the stock are the marks, "SA SPG(?) and another set of marks D.A.??. On the bottom are two circled P's. Bayonet lug has an "R". Top of stock has 1087 stamped in, and the bottom has an 8.

I would really, really appreciate some guidance. Fellow I got it from said it was a 1903A3, which it certainly is not. I've been trying to figure this out but I am ignorant of these guns. Can you give me any advice without pictures?

Information

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[browningautorifle]

It simply sounds like a parts gun from second war. Started way back during the first great conflagration but was rebuilt a few times at least. Sounds like a possible good shooter depending on a couple of things. Just doesn't sound like that's what you wanted in the beginning?

[Jim Tarleton]

As browningautorifle stated, you have a 1903, which happens to be a LN SHT receiver, that has been rebuilt at least once. The rifle was manufactured in mid-July 1917 and most likely saw action in France.

It is not a SRS hit, nor does it have great collector value. It may be a great shooter though. Its value is probably between $400 and $600 depending on where you are located. Welcome to the world of 1903's and to the forum. We will help you any way we can.

Jim

[Cordite]

Thanks, fellas. I knew it wasn't an 03A3 when I saw the sights, but was really confused when I saw the "mish-mash" of parts. The barrel is pristine, so I'm sure if it saw action it was redone somewhere along the line. Plus, it's a Remington barrel, I believe, hence the RA on it? I thought I read somewhere that one had to be careful in shooting 03's with low serial numbers. Mine seems pretty low, but the barrel seems brand new. What is the caution all about? Poor steel in the lower numbers?

I sort of fell for this rifle. It's got some style, handles really nicely, doesn't weigh much and I am interested in WWI, so . . .looks like I might be here awhile, as I see there are some variants. Based on your valuation, I paid a bit too much but that's how you learn. Thanks.

[garyc]

Sounds like the barrel is a replacement possibly done during WWII but could have been added later since you can still find WWII Remington replacement barrels with WWII dates for the 03a3 and these would fit an 03 receiver.

Some low numbered 03's were rebuilt during WWII as an expedient to get rifles in the hands of the troops for training and also for use by second line troops like guards and MP's. You can find them with barrels from different manufacturers Remington being one but also a few others that just made replacment barrels. At the beginning of the war there werent enough M1s to go around so they tried to send those to the front line units. Although the Marines used 03's during the Guadalcanal campaign.

The issue with shooting low numberd 03s is that they found that the heat treat methods used on the low numbered ones were inconsistent and that there were a few cases of the receivers blowing up due to bad heat treating. They changed the heat treat method starting with the "high numbered" rifles but once they issued the low numbered rifles they had no way to tell which ones were good or bad.
They did indeed use some low numbered rifles during WWII and those were probably re-heat treated and then had new barrels installed as part of the rebuild. The problem is that there is no way (short of metallurigcal testing which would likely cost more than the rifle is worth) of telling whether the receiver has been properly re-heat treated as part of a rebuild or if someone just replaced tha barrel on an old original receiver. Having said that there were actually very few recorded blown receivers but since there were some the CMP recommends you dont shoot the low numbered receivers as a safety precaution.

Gary C

[Chuckindenver]

Sounds like the barrel is a replacement possibly done during WWII but could have been added later since you can still find WWII Remington replacement barrels with WWII dates for the 03a3 and these would fit an 03 receiver.

Some low numbered 03's were rebuilt during WWII as an expedient to get rifles in the hands of the troops for training and also for use by second line troops like guards and MP's. You can find them with barrels from different manufacturers Remington being one but also a few others that just made replacment barrels. At the beginning of the war there werent enough M1s to go around so they tried to send those to the front line units. Although the Marines used 03's during the Guadalcanal campaign.

The issue with shooting low numberd 03s is that they found that the heat treat methods used on the low numbered ones were inconsistent and that there were a few cases of the receivers blowing up due to bad heat treating. They changed the heat treat method starting with the "high numbered" rifles but once they issued the low numbered rifles they had no way to tell which ones were good or bad.
They did indeed use some low numbered rifles during WWII and those were probably re-heat treated and then had new barrels installed as part of the rebuild. The problem is that there is no way (short of metallurigcal testing which would likely cost more than the rifle is worth) of telling whether the receiver has been properly re-heat treated as part of a rebuild or if someone just replaced tha barrel on an old original receiver. Having said that there were actually very few recorded blown receivers but since there were some the CMP recommends you dont shoot the low numbered receivers as a safety precaution.

Gary C

no 03,s were ever {reheattreated} and then issued.. they were however, proof tested at a higher proof..75,000 if i remember right,
most SHT rifles that were rebarreled 1942 to 44 were reproofed.
recievers didnt just burst out of the blue...
the issue was and is,
how they handle a failure, the SHT recievers tended to shatter, the DHT pealed back..same with the NS made rifles.
most that failed, had bore opstructions, ammo issues, or wrong ammo..
if you pick up a copy of Hatchers Notebook. he goes into detail on these, and lists several pages of failures by serial number, and the stories with the outcome.
though i shoot my SHT RIA, i dont recommend that anyone ever do so..
if you do, wear safety glasses, and good gloves.

[Calif-Steve]

Hard telling when and where this rifle found an RA '03 barrel. I thuoght all of the RA barrels in early 1942 went on rifles. Not a spares barrel, by any means. I would guess a fairy recent re-barrel job. Perhaps 1-2 yeras ago? Not sure by any means. Is there large "B" stamp on the bottom of the triggerguard? If so, then a Greek rebuild. Rifle isn't the ideal shooter.

[Cordite]

No, there isn't any mark or stamp on the triggergaurd anywhere. I was thinking about this. In a combat situation, with a rather continuous rate of fire, obviously things got hot real fast (no pun intended). But in shooting single shots, off hand or from the bench, or when hunting, would that well-spaced single shot generate enough heat to cause either a shattering or a peeling of the receiver? Is it at all significant that the only markings on the bolt are the letter "R" under the bolt handle and on the bottom of the bolt? I can see no number, although there a mark that is under the bolt handle that was struck where the curve of that handle begins, rendering it unreadable. However it is not really near the "R". Is this serial number one of the low ones? It's 685268.

Jeesh.

[Mike D]

Below serial #800,000 for SA, and #286,506 for RI. I believe most would agree that you should not shoot it.

[Calif-Steve]

"R" is a Remington bolt. Rapid firing of a SHT rifle means nothing. The problem is if the cartridge case fails the rifle does not do a good job of holding the failure inside the rifle. The very hard steel of the receiver will/can/might fail and you will/can/might lose a finger/eye/head. I think this is a put together parts gun. But understand the RA barrel has worth, the stock has worth and so does the triggerguard. All valuable parts.