Whats the scoop on lightened bolt handles?

[RJW NZ]

This might be a myth busting question but enquiring minds have to know...

I continually see sellers comments that jungle carbines had their bolt handles drilled out to reduce weight, the trouble is I see drilled out bolt handles on all kinds of no4 enfields, and including one here with an A suffix, which would indicate that at least early in the war they were already drilled out then, for what reason I don't know.

Is a drilled out handle a sign of a genuine no 5 bolt when on a jungle carbine and would that then mean that a non drilled is not correct equipment?

Does that mean that the drilled out handles on no4's we see around today were just a random installation from some bolt maker who was making them with the hole, or are they retrofitted from later carbine production?

Information

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[jona]

BSA used hollowed bolt knobs on all their rifles, not just the No. 5s. That is why so many No. 4s have them.

[bradtx]

RJW, There are three words that are never used in the L-E world...exclusively, never and always.

There are two sizes of drilled bolt knobs, BSA looks to have used the smaller hole for it's entire production of No.4s. While the larger hole appears a No.5 item, it may not be in practice. No.5s are also supposed to have a waisted butt stock bolt, but both of my Fazakerleys have standard No.4 butt stock bolts.

Brad

PS I checked my notes and reference material to see if the drilled bolt knob was part of the original pattern, but I have nothing anyone else?

[spinecracker]

I have a 1941 Long Branch No.4 Mk.1, and there is a hole in the correctly stamped Long Branch bolt handle knob, just like the example you have in the Knowledge Library here.

[jmoore]

Oddly enough, my "3L" w/ the apparently original bolt (markings correct and S/N font matches, etc.), has no hole in the bolt knob....

- at least- well, I saw it before I left the house at o'dark thirty to cut on a certain barrel for a certain project, ...subject to verification and correction!

[Peter Laidler]

I think you'll find that on BSA production, the hole in the bolt was an indexing locator, presumably for some machining operation - I would imagine to do with the short and long cam groove. BSA, being a private contractor, were prety well left to their own devices and as such were free to make the best use of their material and resources subject to conditions of course........ A certain Reginald Shepherd got BSA the complete No4 rifle contract (they were originally just going to make the woodwork and barrels) following on from their success in doing the same for the Bren Gun but Mr Shepherd convinced the Inspectorate of Armaments that they could slow down No1 rifle production without a break and gear up to make the No4 as a whole item. So they did.

Mr Shepherd............., you all know him.......... the man who authorised Harold Turpin to spend a maximum of £5 and take 10 days 'absence' to make a prototype SMG. That's him S for Shepherd, T for Turpin and EN for England. The STEN gun co inventor

The bolts were all fully interchangeable and in Malaya, we didn't differentiate between them at all.

Some of the No5's did have a large hole in the bolt handle, some, BSA's had a normal BSA type No4 indexing hole while others, presumable from the Fazakerley stable had just a round knob. There didn't seem to be a set pattern to go on. The part numbers were the same (?) and, as I said, we saw and used many, many hundreds

[Beerhunter]

EN for England.

Sorely EN= RSAF, Enfield, for whom Turpin worked.

[madcratebuilder]

I think a third of my No4 rifles have a hollow bolt handles, they are a smaller diameter holes than my No5's. I don't have enough rifles to draw a conclusion, just an observation.

[Surpmil]

Long Branch seems to have drilled out until the MkI* modification was introduced. Maltby seems to never have, likewise Savage.

Some No5's have a larger than normal hole about 1/2" that actually required(?) the knob to be shortened about 3/16" I believe.

Perhaps as No5 production continued after No4 production was reduced or halted at war's end, there was a relaxation of standards to allow No4 bolts already on hand to be used up?

[Son]

Long Branch seems to have drilled out until the MkI* modification was introduced. Maltby seems to never have, likewise Savage.

Some No5's have a larger than normal hole about 1/2" that actually required(?) the knob to be shortened about 3/16" I believe.

Perhaps as No5 production continued after No4 production was reduced or halted at war's end, there was a relaxation of standards to allow No4 bolts already on hand to be used up?

From what I found when scratching my head over the same question a while back...

No4's could have (depending on manufacturer and date) a totally round solid knob, a solid knob with a small flat area on the end, or a 5/16" hole.

No5 's started out with the lightened bolt knob being drilled 7/16" as opposed to the drilled No4 bolt knobs having a 5/16" hole.

At some stage in production, it was decided that any manufacturers bolt body could be fitted to a No5 or No4 rifle. This explains the amount of later No5's with the matching numbered bolts that are drilled 5/16"

No5 bolts drilled to 1/2" have allegedly been reworked in India. The changes done to No5's during Indian service varied a lot, and didn't seem to fit any set pattern. They could have had any, all or none of the following.... an Ishy screw, totally scrubbed left side receiver wall, paint removed and blued, bolt knob hole enlarged, some "RFI" marking of small parts (possibly replacement parts)

Probably missed some others, but the point was to show there was no guarantee the bolt would be drilled out in Indian service.

HTH... (and not confuses things further...)