EM-1 & EM-2 Enfield 280 Cal Assault Rifles

[paulseamus]

I can not find any information on this forum regarding the Enfield EM1 and EM2 280 Cal Assault Rifles. Given that the EM2 went into British service, have any of these interesting rifles made their way on to the surplus/collectors market?
Is there a MILSURPS forum re the EM2?
regards Paul

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[browningautorifle]

To say there's none out there would just be wrong, but I've never heard of it. There are several plus shooting quantities of ammo at Warminster in the UK small arms school. So told to me by the men that were posted there. I know things happen because I have seen one of the test FNs out of a batch of 3003 made and it resides in the small arms schoolin Gagetown N.B. Came from a small museum in Quebec. I saw a S&W light rifle 1940 in the PPCLI museum in Calgary in 1983 but it was hidden in their lockup never to see daylight. I saw an early M16 that was stolen from testing, no serial number stamped but it had been scratched in on the oppostite side. It had fibrite brown handguards and butt. It was in private posession. Are they out there? I just haven't seen one.

Jim

[stencollector]

According to a copy of the registry put online by the Ottawa Citizen here in Canada, there are 5 EM2s registered in Canada, 3 to museums and 2 to individuals. They are listed as being made by Cdn Arsenals (who reportedly made 10 in 7X51), and all are shown as being in Ontario. I would not take the Cdn Arsenals thing as gospel, our registry is rife with errors; you don't get much for 2 billion (and counting).

[bros]

I remember Switzers auctions in Ont, Canada had a CAL made EM2 up for auction I think it went for $25,000. Unfortunately there auction house history does not date back that far anymore (at least online). Can't remember when the auction took place but it was at least 10 yrs ago. There is a CAL made EM2 serial #1 that the National Historical Arms Museum owns..in fact it's featured in this months issue of Calibre magazine. I think it may be the same one that was at Switzers auction. Swiss Rifles.com member Carlos diaopter has pictures of the Switzer EM2.

According to a copy of the registry put online by the Ottawa Citizen here in Canada, there are 5 EM2s registered in Canada, 3 to museums and 2 to individuals. They are listed as being made by Cdn Arsenals (who reportedly made 10 in 7X51), and all are shown as being in Ontario. I would not take the Cdn Arsenals thing as gospel, our registry is rife with errors; you don't get much for 2 billion (and counting).

[Peter Laidler]

We have several at Warminster and we do have a 'quantity' of ammunition which we share with Shrivenham.

Contrary to popular belief, only 60ish were ever manufactured in the UK. The issue of whether they were 'approved' 'authorised' or 'issued' is a moot point. All I can say, after having fired a few and dissected them is that we made the right choice by adopting the L1A1.

In truth, the mere notion that a soldier, however clever and mechanically literate he might be, could field strip and assemble the bolt of an EN rifle, then get it to work afterwards, is sheer fantasy.

When I look at an EM and an L1A1 side by side, as they are at Warminster, I realise that there is a god after all. Sorry EM...............

[paulseamus]

Peter, thank you for your information.
The small amount of secondary data available on the general internet holds the EM-2 up to be a great rifle that had it's introduction stifled by the USA not wanting to adopt a .280 cal as the NATO standard.
Your first hand knowledge makes the decision not to widely introduce the EM-2 seem more sensible - a rifle that cannot effectively be field stripped, quickly becomes a club.
Perhaps it is only selective memory that is now putting the EM-2 up as being a great design.

[Rossguy]

Referring only to the Kanadian CAL EM-2's, I can confirm handling nine of them in one place back in the good ol' days...Saint Tom of Dugelby (Peace be upon him) wrote the book.

[Peter Laidler]

I look at the EM rifles in the same way as, say, the DeLisle rifles. Something that has gone into history surrounded by an air of mystery and intrigue. Something that is slightly revered when looked at through rose tinted spectacles. But in truth, with your rose tinder specs removed, not nearly - or even remotely - as good as was lead to be believed at the time

Thank god for the Mk2S Sten and the L1A1. TRULY good at their jobs even without the benefit of those specs!

[stencollector]

I look at the EM rifles in the same way as, say, the DeLisle rifles. Something that has gone into history surrounded by an air of mystery and intrigue. Something that is slightly revered when looked at through rose tinted spectacles. But in truth, with your rose tinder specs removed, not nearly - or even remotely - as good as was lead to be believed at the time

Thank god for the Mk2S Sten and the L1A1. TRULY good at their jobs even without the benefit of those specs!

The Canadian example of that would be the AVRO Arrow aircraft from the early 60s. The whole project was scrapped when still in it's infancy, and all existing examples were to be cut small enough to fit through a 1 meter square. Thanks to a few books on the matter in the late 70s, many of the Canadian public still quotes that the plane would have been modern even today. The thing was huge, and the bugs were still not worked out of it.

I suspect that I will now be flamed by the Canadians present for questioning one of the few Canadian icons that exist.

[Warren]

One EM-2 in Canada is of British manufacture and in 7.62 x 51. It was traded out of the UK some (MANY) years ago for a CAL 7mmHV model. They were made: the Canadian 7mm HV models by CAL and so marked. There are still some in the hands of private collectors however the only complete one in private hands was transferred back to the Canadian government as a gift in kind by a dumb a** well meaning collector some years ago. It was complete with the rotating optical/iron sight and Canadian Arctic trigger guard and was serial number 2. "We all grow to smart to late, to soon".
Anyone need a spare mag????