Mystery Dummy Cartridges and Charger (Clip) -With Pictures!

[jmoore]

An easy question if you know, but can anyone ID these? I've only the four rounds.

Some sort of odd charger as well, very sharp bends.



The brass dummy round is a S&B 30-06.



"Bullet" dia. just over 0.300", mostly. (some variation)





Note very sharp fold on corners- sorry it's a little out of focus.

Information

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[Parashooter]

Charger looks like a Japanese product and the cartridges appear to resemble 7.7x58 Arisaka. Post some more detailed dimensions, including base to "mouth", and you may learn more.

[jmoore]

Will do!

I figured that, due to their distinctive appearance, someone might know from past experience, hence the lack of further detail.

All of my Japanese chargers are brass colored, but they're 6.5cal.

Already had one offer to buy some, but I'm more interested in solving the mystery.

[jmoore]

I was sent this private message:

"7.7 Jap. Dummies

Solved!
The clip is a late-war Japanese clip and the dummies are Japanese 7.7x58. Those are the less common type of Japanese dummy in that caliber. I would like to get one for my collection and 1 or 2 others for some collector friends who could also use one. Let me know if you're interested. What part of the country are you located in?
Best,
Jon "


T'aint quite fair, I think.

[jonnyc]

No intent to be unfair, I just think public offers to buy seem like hounding.
But anyway, I believe Parashooter ID'd them correctly, but only measurements can confirm that.

[jmoore]

My Christian duty to be forgiving was neglected, I'm afraid. My apologies! I'm sure you just got caught up in the "thrill of the hunt".

Just to prevent future misunderstandings, I must do a bit of admonishing;

Had you posted your answer BEFORE offering to buy, esp. w/o letting me in the "secret" at first, would have gone a long way towards keeping my harsh nature in check. We're here mostly to "leak knowledge" as well as to learn.- Trading is part of the fun, but is of secondary importance to the purpose of these forums as i see it. (Whether it's Badger's intent, I can't say.)

WHEN I need correction i expect the same from y'all- Don't be reluctant to address the drama!


I'll let y'all know if I decide to sell them. I do have a Type 99 or two, and these items are as close to original WWII ammo as I have at the moment! (Plenty of 6.5- I sold off most of that a long while back- kept enough for reference purposes.)

Back to the Subject!

It's odd, that when preparing to take pictures for this thread, I had actually considered using a 7.7 round amongst others for visual comparison, but the only round handy was an odd Norma 135gr(?) sp. round that just didn't seem "right" (Bullet too short and case too largish and a bit longer). The 30-06 was chosen as it's really common.

Took some more pictures today, but camera died before finishing- will try to post some "soon".

The charger DOES appear to be a steel version of the 6.5 Type 38 chargers. (The one 6.5 steel charger found looks much different. Again, "pics" to follow.)

Exact measurements forthcoming, I'm afraid I got distracted...

[jmoore]

Hokay,
Ran two sets of measurements on a random sample (apparently not the one pictured above) w/ an independently calibrated set of electronic calipers- one time metric and one time English units (about an hour apart). As the wood varies dimensionally about its circumference and the exact points of measurement may be slightly different, don't expect the numbers to convert exactly.

rim dia:_____________________ 12,0mm, 0.472"
rim thickness:________________ 1,3mm, 0,055"
groove width incl. chamfer:____ _1,9mm, 0.08"
base dia:__________________ 11,95mm, 0.470"
dia at shoulder:______________ 10,3mm, 0.407"
drop to shoulder base (approx.): 46,4mm, 1.83"
drop to shoulder/neck junction:_ 48,5mm, 1.91"
neck dia:____________________ 7,89mm, 0.310"
OAL case:___________________ 56,8mm, 2.235"
"bullet" dia:__________________ 7,46mm, 0.294" (the one pictured was 0.302")
OAL:________________________ 79,2mm, 3.117"

[jonnyc]

Those measurements are close enough to ID the rounds as Japanese 7.7x58, especially the head and rim. Any variation would be due to the nature of the wood construction. The bases look very similar to other 7.7x58 rounds I have.

[smellie]

FWIW, that dark wood is really pretty! Some kind of teak, I would suppose.

[jmoore]

These are being sold to a certain enthusiastic fellow.... I just couldn't say no.... (Not the charger, just the "cartridges".)


If you want more photos, please ask straight away! I don't know if the new owner will be willing to wave them about the internet.