No. 42 Scope Question.

[Bruce_in_Oz]

Edit: OOPS, header should read "No.32"

This morning, I was shown a scope marked thus:

TEL.STG No MK1
HBM Co. OS. 817 GA.
REGD. No. 2882

This is similar to the sample text on a Mk 1 as fitted to an early No4 T.

Reticle is a simple cross hair, not a fat post with a crosswire.

Allegedly, it came from a Canadian rifle that was used in Korea in the 1950s.

With the scope is a butt that looks very like the butt on a No4 (T) C, except that the socket end is cut for a SMLE, NOT a No4.

The bloke that owns this stuff also got a bunch of armourers tools and gauges from the same source as a job lot.

My digital camera went for a swim, so when I get a new one, I will try to provide pictures.

Cheers!

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[tbonesmith]

What sort of tools and gauges?

[Peter Laidler]

It sounds to me as if it's a bog standard No42 telescope as fitted to Churchill Mk7 and 8 gun tanks. It won't fit a No32 bracket as it's a larger diameter tube and even if you did fit it to a rifle, you'd have to zero it by bending the barrel as there's no adjustment facility. It's worth buying, just for the optical spares. Or if you have one, your Churchill tank

[Bruce_in_Oz]

Thanks, Peter.

I will run the verniers over it next time i am visiting.

The butt still intrigues me; mainly the fact that it is visually identical to those seen on the classic No4 (T) C, but the profiling of the socket bit is definitely SMLE.

Never having pulled apart any of the "oddball" early No4 series / No1 Mk6 types, I do not have intimate knowledge of the socket variations of these.
Any thoughts?

tbonesmith: The tools are the usual screwdrivers, front-sight adjusters and a small hammer. Gauges I recognised were Striker protrusion ( 2 variants ), Headspace, (corrosion made reading the markings if any, impossible.), and the usual bore go and no-go gauges. There were, from memory, a bunch of assorted front-sight blades, ans a motley assortment of small screws in varying conditions.

The owner is a Lee Enfield collector and wants to keep them. (I did try, though).

[Warren]

The Optical stores number: OS 817 GA make it a 42 scope. Looks like "someone" has removed the 42 engraving.....????

[Surpmil]

The butt still intrigues me; mainly the fact that it is visually identical to those seen on the classic No4 (T) C ....

What do you mean by a "No4(T) C" ?

[Bruce_in_Oz]

The Canadian version with the cool-looking sporter butt, complete with slotted rubber recoil pad and fat cheekpiece.

See Skennerton's "The British Sniper", page 192: "Sniper from Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry". Also detailed entry on pp. 252, 253.

My description should have read: Rifle C No.4 Mk "X" (T).

[Peter Laidler]

Both types of butt socket configuration were available for the No4 rifle and the EMER's gave instructions of fitting either type of butt to either type of rifle.

It was quite common for No1 rifle butts to come through the system too but I don't think anyone particularly noticed the recess for the locking bolt and likewise, fitting a No4 butt to No1 rifles. The Navy Lanchesters in Singapore all went out with No4 type sling swivels and butt plates

[Surpmil]

IRRC from the published photos etc. the Canadian Army did not use the No32 after circa 1945-46, but standardized on the C67 with "Griffin & Howe" type mounts made by Small Arms Limited (Long Branch), with the special butt you mention of course.

There is at least one published photo showing the Lyman Alaskan and C67 in use either in Korea or during the Korean War but in Canada.

There are no photos AFAIK or any other info to suggest the No32 scope was ever used with the SAL mounts or butt, although it is PERHAPS possible that such a butt was fitted experimentally to a No4(T) fitted with a MkI scope, the published photos all show Mk3 scopes fitted to those rifles that were sent to the UK and Australia (and NZ?) for trials.

I'm speaking from memory, so I could be wrong as I haven't checked the books ("Without Warning" and "With British Snipers to the Reich")

There were at least three slightly different types of "Monte Carlo" stock produced by Long Branch in 1944/45. One of those types is shown fitted to what appears to be a regular No4(T) with No32 Mk3 scope in Capt. Shore's book. We could hypothesize that some butts of different types were shipped to the UK in 1944/45 and fitted to rifles there. There would be no reason to ship whole rifles, which were not in plentiful supply anyway, from what I have read.

I'm not sure what you mean by your "X", but perhaps this is an early experimental version you are referring to. Photos would be interesting.

I'm not sure if we know when the C67 etc. left Canadian service, but the REL Telescope Observing Sniper's that was on eBay in Canada recently had a RCEME tag on it dated 1965, so perhaps they were still in use at that time.

My guess would be that there was a 'clearout' of Army kit around the time of CF unification in 1968/69.

[Bruce_in_Oz]

"X": as in "1", "1*", "11" etc.

The "legend" that goes with these parts, gauges, etc. is this:

They most recently belonged to long-retired Australian armourer who had served in Korea in the early 1950s and had some "dealings" with his Canadian counterparts.