Question on UK fiream laws for collectors

[rgamba]

I have a very good friend staying with me from across the pond and I was just showing him a couple of my Lee Enfields. He would love to get one, but was telling me that the UK does not allow ownership of milsurp rifles. Now, I know the UK has strict gun laws but surely there must be ways for someone interested in collecting historic firearms to be able to do so. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated - esp from UK forum members

Thanks in advance

Best

Robert

Information

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[TonyE]

If he wishes to own one he will first need to join a Home Office approved club, spend a six month probation period and then he can apply to the police for a Firearms certificate for the weapon he wishes to purchase. He wil also need a medical approval from his doctor and two character references. Once bought he can then shoot the rifle with that club.

Depending where he lives, the approved full bore range may be some distance away. However, provided he fulfills all the requirements there is nothing to stop him legally owning and shooting Lee- Enfields (or any other bolt action rifle) in the UK.

Regards
TonyE

[Alan de Enfield]

I... but was telling me that the UK does not allow ownership of milsurp rifles .....

Well - he hasnt tried very hard.

The UK does not allow auto weapons, or semi-auto above .22rf but apart from those limitations there are no restrictions or differentiation between a 303 military rifle or a .308 deer stalking rifle.

The two 'limiting' factors to uk gun ownership are :

a) Having 'good reason' to own a firearm. This has to be a 'good' reason (ie deer stalking, vermin control. member of a shooting club etc) and 'just wanting one' is NOT good reason.

b) Somewhere to shoot. Obviously if you are a memebr of a gun club then you will have somewhere to shoot, otherwise you need the landowners permission, and, the Police to certify that the land is sutable for the calibre you want. I'm pretty lucky in that the POlice have cleared my own plot of land for any calibre up to 303 / 7.62 so whilst I am a member at a gun club I can play / zero at home.

[rhodders]

Although it it is not a simple process ( and I quite agree that it shouldnt be ) by following all the rules you will eventually get a licence.

In the UK when you apply to your local Police Force for a licence a number of checks will be made before you even get a visit by your local firearms officer. Namely CRB check ( Criminal records breuau ), local intel ( are you known to the police but not convicted of any crime) This even extends down to traffic offences , the reasoning behind this is that anyone who habitually has traffic violations may not stick to the rules pertaining to firearms. You have to also agree to enquiries being made to your local GP ( Doctor) as to your health and his opinion of your mental state.

Then after all these have come back in a positive way you will have a visit by your local fire arms officer. These people are not idiots and are not only there to inspect the gun safe and security of the building but to try and guage you as a person and weather you are a fit person to hold a fire arm.

Only after all these checks and checks with your shooting club to confirm that you are a member and that you are competant to use and care for the fire arm will you be issued with a licence.

A long winded process but in my opinion a correct one. After getting a licence you can hold as many firearms as you like so long as you can prove to the local firearms dept that you have a good use for them , just because you want 10 lee enfields is not a reason. It would have to be some thing like a 7.62 iron sights 7.62 with a scope etc.

You can therefore have any millsurp so long as you can give a valid reason for having it ( except for no auto or semi auto .22 LR excepted)

rhodders

[RobD]

I echo all of the above - it is surprisingly straightforward to get a UK firearms certificate provided you are of good character and sound mental health, have a secure home, and have been a member of a Home Office approved club for >6 months.
Other points to consider:
1. He can collect obsolete calibres without any licence whatsoever. You can find a list of these calibres on the www, for example Home Office .
2. He can shoot under 1-to-1 supervision at Open Days - the NRA has 2 annually at Bisley (next is Sat 11th Sept) and the HBSA has a few each year.
3. While joining a historical club (HBSA or LERA would be the two obvious) he can shoot borrowed rifles and ammo under probation.
4. If collecting is his main reason to possess firearms, then a large collection of books, deacts, militaria, obsolete calibres is reassuring to the police that he is a genuine military history enthusiast. A "collector" whose sole aim is to collect sniper rifles fills the police with angst.

[rgamba]

Thank you all very much for the very helpful information. I will pass it on

All the best

Robert

[Mk VII]

Actually he does not have to belong to a club if his Good Reason is 'collecting'. He would, however, not be able to fire them. The police do not like collecting, seeing no reason why people should be able to accumulate firearms for no better reason than that they want to.

[bigduke6]

Actually he does not have to belong to a club if his Good Reason is 'collecting'. He would, however, not be able to fire them. The police do not like collecting, seeing no reason why people should be able to accumulate firearms for no better reason than that they want to.

A collector is issued with a Normal FAC with the variations on for collecting, anything on a collectors variation can be shot, but are limited to the amount of rounds this is part of the collectors variation as the weapon can be used for historic events, training or research etc.

The rifles in question would have to meet a certain criteria, a run of the mill No4 or SMLE, would not be accepted, if it was a rare example, or one of historic importance then this would fit the bill.

I know two shooters in my club with collectors variations, one is a collector of sniper rifles, the other has most of his Lee Enfields on, No4 T, L42 etc. They both have collectors slots and normal slots and are keen shooters.

One thing a lot of people dont know if there was a shooting ban etc , then those rifles held on a collectors slot would be reasonably safe as they were not purchased for shooting but for collecting.

[enfield303t]

One question I have is what is the maximum number of guns a person could own as a collector? Seeing as there are countless variations of Lee Enfields and a person would like to own as many variations as possible would that be allowed. The strange thing is that ultra stringent rules do not solve the problems of crime or violence. We prove that every day here in Canada where somewhere in the area of 98% of guns used in crime are unregistered. I think back to WWII when in the early stages England was literally begging the "colonies" to send guns to defend the homeland. I know things are different now, but find it ironic that no one learns from past mistakes.

[RobD]

There is no absolute limit. As with much of firearms law, it is down to the discretion of the local police, and there is variability in both the general view of the police forces and the degree to which the specific collector is eyed with trust or suspicion. Typically, shooter/collectors run into the first signs of objection from their local police force when they reach about 12-15 "on ticket" rifles, or what will fit into two gun safes. After that, a "strong room" and "monitored" burglar alarm comes up in discussion. Thus most of us tend to be at about the 12-15 level, with an unlimited amount of obsolete calibre items such as Martini Henrys. Some determined collectors get the strong room and alarm installed, and then have dozens of rifles.