WW2 97 Trench gun question

[Jared]

Hello,
Is it possible for a 97 Winchester trench gun sn 951968 to be WB cartouched, and have the six row heat shield? The bottom of the barrel is 42 dated and the muzzle shows no signs of a sight bead in the barrel. The shotgun looks all original to me. The receiver is US and bomb proofed on the left side where it should be. The bayonet lug is marked PAT JAN 15 & MAR 19 1918. I have read that most WW2 bayonet lugs are unmarked. I've been collecting awhile and the gun looks righteous to me. I can post pictures later if you need them. Thanks in advance,
Jared V.

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[Tom Doniphon]

Possible? Yes. However, unlikely. That's a pretty high serial number to have a WB marked stock and a six row cooling hole heat shield. Another issue is the marked (Pat Jan 15 & Mar 19 1918) bayonet adaptor. The WW2 adaptors for the Model 97 trench gun were not marked.

[Jared]

I will post some detailed pictures tomarrow when I have good light. I have examined this one pretty closely and it looks righteous to me. Let me know your opinions please.
Jared V

[Jared]

Here are some pictures. I don't believe there is any refinish or touch up. All wear patterns and colors are consistant. the sight bead on the lug is silver rather than brass and the lug itself measures 3.81"...
Jared V

[Jared]

More...

[Jared]

Wood to metal fit is perfect as is the fit of the lug and heat shield. I have been collecting model 12's and 1897's long enough to know original finish. This is my first trench gun however. There is also very old grease and junk beneath the heat shield that has been there for what looks like since it was born. If any one would like to see a specific picture, please ask. Your thoughts are appreciated.
Jared V.

[Jared]

I've also notied that the font of the E prefix is different on some 97 trench guns I've looked at. Was wondering what this meant?

[Tom Doniphon]

Don't have a problem with the E prefix to the serial number. Some look like that.

What I find interesting is that some of the markings, particularly on the barrel, look like they have been buffed. They are not very sharp. There should be burnishing around the ordnance bomb and Winchester proof mark on the barrel. I'm not seeing that in your photos. Also, there appears to be a punch mark on the barrel next to the Winchester proof mark. Is there also a punch mark on the top of the receiver? These punch marks are thought to be rebuild marks. And there are even some collectors who believe that Winchester actually refinished some of these guns either near the end of or just after WW2, and that Winchester applied these punch marks on those refinished guns.


You said there is no evidence of a filed down sight bead on the barrel, right? Because some of the late made M97 trench guns have barrels with the filed down bead sight.

Post more photos, if you can.

[Jared]

Some more pictures.

[Jared]

Tom,
There is no filled or filed front sight hole at the muzzle end of the barrel. I own many old Winchesters and have made a small study of the Winchester proofing all the way back from when it first appeared shortly after the turn of the 1900's. I know what you are saying about burnishing or "halos" around the proofing and often around the serial numbers. My experience has been that when stamped after bluing, the metal becomes slightly high and is the first to wear on this high spot. Similar to what you see on the sides of the receivers on early 1894's where there were very slight forging lines running parrellel with the action that look like scratches when worn some. This particular gun shows only slight high edge wear and not much on the carry point. I truly doubt this one was refinished. Interesting that the punch marks could mean a factory refinish and yes there is one on the receiver and one on the barrel. All corners and contours look like they should with no evidence of polishing. The barrel logo is somewhat lite but sharp. The entire gun's metal shows brown oxidation under bright artificial light. Agian, I suspect no refinishing of either metal or wood. I will post some additional pictures.