How to deal with Stukas

[peregrinvs]

"Stand up to them. Shoot at them with a Bren gun from the shoulder. Take them like a high Pheasant. Give them plenty of lead. Remember, five pounds to any man who brings one down. I have already paid out ten pounds".

Speech to men of the 2nd Coldstream Guards by Brigadier Beckwith-Smith. Dunkirk rearguard, 28th May 1940.

Information

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[Surpmil]

The next day the Stuka came back and this time one of our lads had got a Bren gun mounted on a tripod. We were sitting under an olive tree enjoying the shade when we heard the Stuka a long time before he got to us. I stayed put under the tree with the others but one of our blokes dashed out to where the bren was mounted and was shouting "come on you b----d have a taste of this" and pulling back on the cocking handle he swivelled round to get a bead on the now approaching Stuka. Because he was not under cover, the Stuka pilot spotted the movement changed course and began his dive at the same time. He opened up with machine guns. We got round the other side of the tree while screaming to the bloke to leave it and take cover. But he was so obsessed with the Stuka and he ripped off the used magazine. While he was putting the new magazine on, it looked like a huge blast of wind and big hail slammed him to the ground and he stayed there still, and the Stuka climbed up and away. I didn’t know his name, I wished I did but I think that bloke should have got the highest award. Some one did get his dog tags and I heard him say,” you will always be remembered mate, no question, and ah’ll see to it yu git a medal”.

http://www.warlinks.com/memories/barker/index.html

[peregrinvs]

In the same book I pulled the Brigadier Beckwith-Smith quote from ('Fight to the Last Man' by Simon Sebag-Montefiore) is an eye witness account from a man on one of the ships fleeing Saint-Nazaire. The ship was spotted by a Ju88 which dived to attack. However, the soldiers on board had some Brens ready and opened fire: successfully raking the cockpit area as pieces of the canopy were seen to fall away. The bomber flew on a little further and then plunged into the sea.

So it could be done.

Mark

[Surpmil]

Best not attempted unless you are a superb marksman, but yes of course it could be done. There is record of an Australian in the Western Desert shooting down an ME109 with a single well placed round - of course luck played a part there in hitting a vital spot in the engine.

When you look at the record of pilots like Albert Ball and Buzz Beurling you see what a difference real marksmanship makes.

If a way could be found to teach that kind of skill widely, the difference in results would be enormous.

[Peter Laidler]

We have reports here telling of the perils of taking on aircraft with Brens. One wag tells of taking on roaming aircraft in France only to find that they were up there looking for trouble. You opened fire on them with tracer and if it was trouble you were looking for, then they gave you and your mates some. But while you hosed them down with .303, they got JUST out of range and hosed you down with cannon fire. Shortly afterwards they stopped teaching AA fire with the Bren and deleted all the AA fire bits of the tripod. I mean........., really......., taking on aircraft with a Bren........ IT was a left-over from the pre-war Bren trials that suggested to all and sundry that the Bren was going to be all things to all men. Alas, it wasmn't to be. The big stuff was left to the big boys with the Vickers and Mortars and the ren left to what it excelled at. A section machine gun

[stencollector]

My understanding, at least going by the manuals of the day, were that the AA parts were deleted because the "hosepipe" method was preferable. That was where you held the gun at the waist and pointed the gun (with a bit of a lead) towards the aircraft.

After the first gulf war, pilots pointed out that while few aircraft are literally knocked out of the sky by small arms fire, they do suffer damage that is often critical on landing, as well as to the pilots who, while they make it home are taken out of the battle.

All that said, I still think a guy would need big kahunas to take on any aircraft with a .303, a a 5.56, a 7.62 etc...

[Peter Laidler]

The viet cong were masters at taking on aircrafty with small arms fire. EVERYONE opened fire at ANY aircraft south of the DMZ (on the basis that the NV AF didn't fly south of it). Bullets puncturing the aircraft skin on fast jets tended to roll the skins backwards until it peeled back enough to cause big damage. Who remembers the USMC Phanton pilot from the other forum. What was his name again.............?

[arado]

The aircraft weapon of individual combat was the ME109 in the hands of Eric Hartmann. 356 confirmed kills. Gary

[csmarcher]

Like this..........

http://photos.imageevent.com/gazzavc...size/AAGun.jpg

[Grizzlypeg]

There must have been a lot of lead raining down on people's heads during that war. Good reason to keep your helmet on.