No wonder we are losing the battle....

[Son]

No matter how hard the regular contributors here and indeed on other forums work to dispel all manor of false information that is getting about on the topic of Lee Enfield Rifles, every now and again someone drops a real clanger!

I don't know if this particular person has an axe to grind, or if he is just plain ignorant, ... well, I was gobsmacked.

Please feel free to comment on this posting or add any more comments by "Enfield assassins" for discussion....

The topic? -Why does Headspace Vary?

On a Enfield?

Headspace varies because of a almost total lack of quality control during building.

Only reason.

Good guns but.......

You dont see any other built to a spec rifle need different bolt heads to head space.
Heck even the Russians could stay in spec. Anyone ever found a Mosin nagant out of head space?
I have never seen or even heard of it.

A Enfield?

I have seen 3 that actually had proper head space with out work.

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Brit plumber]

It would be nice to get some old soldiers on the forum and see which rifle they would have rather had during the service years, I'd hazard a guess at the Lee Enfield 99% of the time. I also expect many other rifles that went out of CHS were DPd or scrapped, at least a well maintained LE could last a hundred years plus.

[arado]

I'm an old soldier sailor and I strongly prefer the FAL. If I was issued an SKS, I'd say thank you. I engaged in no close combat. Just like efficient rifles. Gary

[Amatikulu]

Everytime I see another concern about headspace and the Lee Enfield, I try to point people towards this excellent explanation of headspace in the Lee Enfield, so that people have an understanding of their concern. It's listed here in Knowledge Library:

Headspace 101 for .303's

[Bear43]

I saw that thread, read that response and was quite angry. It also perpetuates some people's ideas that these rifles are old, useless, junk. As for making the comparison to the Mosin Nagant.... I will just say this... I have never once had an Enfield with a bolt that was hard to open after firing but I have had several Mosin Nagants and Mausers that took a rubber mallet to open the bolt due to fouling after firing a few rounds. The looser tolerances on an Enfield are there for a reason.

[jrhead75]

Didn't even need a link...just read Son's post and knew exactly where to look.

Some things never change.

[Mohawk]

Huh? Seems like a well versed individual would understand. I'm just glad I am able to change headspace with a new bolthead and not have to spend a wallet full of money to have the barrel set back.

[mbost]

I saw that thread, read that response and was quite angry. It also perpetuates some people's ideas that these rifles are old, useless, junk. As for making the comparison to the Mosin Nagant.... I will just say this... I have never once had an Enfield with a bolt that was hard to open after firing but I have had several Mosin Nagants and Mausers that took a rubber mallet to open the bolt due to fouling after firing a few rounds. The looser tolerances on an Enfield are there for a reason.

Ive never owned an Enfield, but I do own a Mosin. I will say(from experience) that if you dont get all of the cosmoline off the bolt, or if your bolt is "dirty" (ie- NOT polished at the metal to metal contact points of the sear pin to bolt) it will (especially with cosmoline residue) stick almost every time you fire a round. But, as soon as you get all the cosmoline off the bolt and bolt contact points or, if that fails, you polish the bolt, you will never again have a sticky bolt. If you do, i suggest you look into cleaning the bolt(and bolt to receiver contact points) with brake parts cleaner (a little harsh, but will work just fine if you properly oil afterwards and dont let it sit for long) and polish the bolt till it shines. Just be careful not to remove too much material, or only polish those areas that contact the sear pin. Also, the polishing serves a dual purpose, it makes that notoriously horrible trigger pull absolutely perfect and smooth.
As far as the original entry. It infuriates me that people can be so naive as to think that the Enfield was not made to particularly high specs, or at least consistent specs. They are great firearms. I have met a few and fell in love with most all of them.

[Son]

It's all right guys, another poster has come along and said this.... (BTW, the sticky he referenced tells all about how the Lee Enfield chambers are all machined out of round- )



The fallacy of just changing the bolt head is just that, a Fairy Tale. While sometimes it may work, most of the time it wont.* The reason being is each armorer had their idea just what is to be set on their rifles under their control. I have a manual written in 1924 for the Armorers serving for Great Britten. These men had to be experts on just about every fire arm you could think of. Experts, not handy men.
In the margin of this manual ,written in pencil, as if it was verbatim as the instructor recited it, is " The head spacing on the Enfield Rifle shall be such that the soldier may store a dry pair of socks!"
Many,many of the bolt bodies have been shortened.(You think of the Armorer have boxes of spare bolt heads just lying around. In real life they must not have had them. Or were out of the ones needed. )
Grab your calipers and measure what you have. If you have more than one rifle, you will see what I mean. Bolt bodies vary in length from rifle to rifle.
Many of the members here from a few years ago jumped onto the band wagon when the rifles came into the USA by the thousands. Members were having cases fail at the web more often than not.
I started to do inspections on the rifles in my collection and in gun stores. I found excessive head spacing on about 98% of the rifles checked.(read sticky) Measurements were from "normal" to way out of spects.
Britt military brass can and will stand this "slop". Our brass will not. Many cases will look as the photos show, or will have insipid case head separation on the first reloading.
I have one NoIV MkI barreled receiver that is so bad, it cannot be made safe to shoot. The head spacing was so "loose" that the bolt pounded the locking lugs until the excessive head spacing is more than 17 thousands of an inch.
The rest of my rifles have had the bolt bodies replaced to like new length, and with a "0" or number "1" bolt head. While the head spacing is now back to safe specifications, the shape of the chamber, shoulder position, roundness of the chamber, centering of the bore to the center of the chamber and condition of the chambers throat due to the corrosive effects of thousands of Cordite rounds fired are still major factors.
The size of the bore can cause pressure indicators of the fired primers that will mislead you to the wrong conclusions. Many of the old rifles will have bores larger than .314. Only an over-sized cast lead bullet would obdurate properly.
There is a very good chance you can safely shoot your rifle/s. Read the sticky, try the "repairs" listed. You may be pleasantly surprised how well you can get your rifle to shoot.
* many of the bolt heads have been filed or machined down from what they are stamped or the Number assigned to them. If your trying to head space the SMLE, the bolt head has to be "miked" as to its real size.
Do the masking tape test. Its easy, is accurate, and will save you time and money in the long run.


Attachment 18422 Attachment 18422 Attachment 18422




Just a quick comment about one glaringly obvious point... Where this person says "many many of the bolt bodies have been shortened..." lets just think about this... If you shorten the bolt body, the bolt head will no longer come against the shoulder of the bolt body at the point of bolt closing (the spec is maximum of 15deg overturn to contact the face of the bolt body IIRC)- It will, however still be in exactly the same place with regards to length (it is held here by the thread) until you fire it a few times with the threads being the only thing transfering the chamber pressure (recoil) onto the bolt body to the locking lugs. I haven't tried it, but I'd imagine the headspace would go out of spec quite quickly, stuffing the threads!

PLEASE If anyone hears or sees or reads or gets told something that doesn't quite seem right- come here and ask. It's been said before... "The only stupid question is one that you don't ask"

[krinko]

"..or will have insipid case head separation on the first reloading."

These illiterate wonks write as badly as they think.
-----krinko