The mysterious No8T rifles…………..

[Peter Laidler]

You’re probably thinking ‘…..has this bloke lost the plot?’ but hold on a few minutes before ‘worried of Worthing’ writes in to the Editor…..

In June/July 1977, there was a General Staff Requirement (what we call simply ‘a GSR’) of January that year that stated:
’….the sniper gains little in value in shooting in the indoor range or theatre as he cannot use the No8 rifle fitted with the No32 telescope or in darkness, with the IWS. It is suggested that fitting the (L42) rifle sight pads to the No8 rifle would enable the No32 sight and IWS to it for use indoors. ITDU are to trial the suggested proposal and to assess the adjustment that would need to be made to the No32 telescope and the IWS when fitted to and fired using the No8 rifle at 25 yards’

The choice of the standard No8 rifle was because there were plenty in stock and utilizing these would save considerable expense. The idea was not new. It certainly wasn’t because 10 years before, similar No9 type telescoped rifles had been used for the same purpose. And the current No8 rifle when fitted with the No4 butt was similar in operation and appearance to the L42 rifle. And anyway, if need be, it would be a simple, local exercise to fit a production L42 fore-end and handguard to the No8 rifle. Indeed, there was still 1959 dated authority to units engaged in the large scale training of recruits that in order to create realism to the shooting training programme, No4 butts could be fitted to the No8 rifle…….. but I digress

Two No8 rifles were supplied together with several sets of body pads (presumably from stripped/redundant No4 or L42 rifles). These were fitted at the ITDU workshop. The first thing that became apparent was that the No8 rifles with tapered body sides (the ex Fazakerley No5 bodies, where they utilized old No5 stocks) were unsuitable for any such conversion.

The long and short of the trials is that what the team wanted was impossible to achieve! They wished that any converted No8 rifle would stand alone WITHOUT a separate sight and that the sight would be transferred from the L42 rifle that the sniper was using on the course. There were obvious problems. Firstly, NO sniper wanted to upset his finely zeroed No32 telescope (they were L1A1 by then, but let’s not spoil their paperwork…..) that he KNEW would retain its zero when removed and replaced. Indeed, some refused to remove them once zeroed in! Some trials were undertaken to ascertain what adjustment would be needed to change back and forth on the courses. Alas, they were flogging a dead horse. After all, that’s WHY the telescope is numbered to the rifle in the first place.

Additionally, the fixed focus No32/L1A1 telescopes were quite incapable of focusing down to such short ranges and have to be adjusted at the objective to do so. Quite why the trials team did not suggest that the idea had some merit providing that a small supply of redundant telescopes were made available is not clear. There were certainly stockpiles (albeit small….) of Mk2/1 telescopes that could have been utilized.

Anyway, the trial ended and in September 1977 and at the suggestion of the trials team, Lt Col Randall put the matter to bed. But the question is still there………. Have these two enigmatic No8T rifles emerged onto the commercial marked yet? Do you have one still with the pads or the tell tale holes. Don’t all jump up because while we don’t know the serial numbers, they do carry the engraved markings of the ITDU authority – and I’m not telling you what it is!

Peter Laidler

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[bigduke6]

I guess there was a rattling of safe keys today, as the owners of No8 rifles around the world, rushed to unlock thier safe to to give their No8,s a once over to see if there was any tell tale marks that may of been covered up at some point ?

[Patrick Chadwick]

Don’t all jump up because while we don’t know the serial numbers, they do carry the engraved markings of the ITDU authority – and I’m not telling you what it is!

Oh well, in that case I won't tell you where the holes are!

Does anyone recognize the source of the quote in the title? (Not much chance unless you are British and 60+).

[Peter Laidler]

Is it part of a Tina Turner song............

[Surpmil]

[Alan de Enfield]

THE KURSAAL FLYERS - 1976 released on the CBS Record Label

Little does she know that I know that she knows
That I know she's two-timin' me
Little does she know that I know that she knows
That I know she's cheatin' on me

I was outside the one stop
When I saw her in the corner
And I didn't like what I see

Little does she know that I know that she knows
That I know she's two-timin' me

She was sharing her spin dryer with a guy in a tie-dye
When she saw my reflection in the chrome
I knew that she'd seen me 'cause she dropped her bikini
The one that I got her in Rome

Little does she know that I know that she knows
That I know she's two-timin' me
Little does she know that I know that she knows
That I know she's cheatin' on me

When she finished her laundry she was all in a quandary
And made it for the street like a hare
Her escape was so urgent, she forgot her detergent
And dropped all her clean underwear

Little does she know that I know that she knows
That I know she's cheatin' on me

[Patrick Chadwick]

Sorry Peter, no cigar. That goes to Surpmil, who recognized a quote from the Goon Show. It just shows that a) you young people don't know everything b) that some British culture managed to cross the pond and reach way out West!

Getting back to the No. 8: It just so happens that my "bench-rest" No. 8 is indeed fitted with a No. 4 butt. Peter, I dimly remember you writing on the old forum that some were deliberately fitted out that way to improve the No. 4 "feeling". The only funny marking is the D in a circle that I once inquired about, and I'm still not sure what that's supposed to indicate...?

As to small-bore sniper training, the Swiss ballistics expert Beat Kneubuehl once wrote an article suggesting that using a small-bore at something like 300 meters would present a similar trajectory - and the same challenge for judging wind - as a full-bore rifle at 800-1000. Haven't had the chance to try that yet, but firing a .22 short at 200 meters was a challenge!

Patrick

---------- Post added at 10:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:32 PM ----------

Indeed, there was still 1959 dated authority to units engaged in the large scale training of recruits that in order to create realism to the shooting training programme, No4 butts could be fitted to the No8 rifle…….. but I digress

Not a digression as far as I'm concerned! I would be very grateful if you could find a copy of that paper, to shut up anyone who thinks my No. 8 is a Bubba job!

Patrick

[Surpmil]

"Let me confess, I am an aesthetic sham..." I googled it, but didn't want to spoil your contest!

Now, Python, The Two Ronnies or Benny 'ill, that's more my age bracket.

And as per my sig., G&S as well! No one ever deflated little vanities better...