Tell Me I'm Right To Call BS On This..

[stickhauler]

Irwin Pedersen M1 Carbine RARE rifle (.30 m-1) ! : Curios and Relics at GunBroker.com


Read the write-up "documenting" the history of this carbine.

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[frankderrico]

Maybe the Korean war?
Without documents, buy the gun not the story.
It is an I.P. that went through a rebuild.
They're around, the CMP sold or is selling some.
Unless it has an import stamp, the price is in the ballpark, I don't see a problem. JMHO.....Frank

[JimF4M1s (Deceased)]

Maybe the Korean war?
Without documents, buy the gun not the story.
It is an I.P. that went through a rebuild.
They're around, the CMP sold or is selling some.
Unless it has an import stamp, the price is in the ballpark, I don't see a problem. JMHO.....Frank

Frank,

Do you really think that $2200 is a ballpark price? The receiver is IP, the barrel, sling maybe ok. But everything else looks mixed up. Low wood stock, didn't show markings. I see parts from a $700-$800 rebuilt carbine with an IP receiver. I don't think the receiver alone adds another $1400. I would want to see how all the parts are marked. I think it needs some S'G' or IP marked parts in it for that price.

Maybe I'm way off on current pricing?

Jim

[stickhauler]

I thought no IP's were accepted for use by the military? Their quality control issues was the reason Saginaw Gear was given their contract, wasn't it?

[Bruce McAskill]

I thought no IP's were accepted for use by the military? Their quality control issues was the reason Saginaw Gear was given their contract, wasn't it?

No it wasn't the quality of their carbines that lost IP the contract. It was management problems that could not get their act together and to get the carbine into production. If it had been a problem with the quality then you never would have seen the first carbines made by S'G' made with most if not all IP made parts and then later with a mix of IP and S'G' made parts.

[imarangemaster]

And, if you believe the story, Santa Claus and Te Easter Bunny will be downtown passing out $100 dollar bills.....

[Johnny Peppers]

As long as you don't let the story influence your bid, you will be OK.

[frankderrico]

Jim, I see what you're saying, but I.P's aren't offered up very often and there aren't that many to begin with.
If you want to fill a hole you might give that much. That's why I said the price was in the ballpark.
I believe if "fourseasons" gets it for around $2200 he won't lose. He may already have a buyer for it.
I paid less then that for mine but it is in a white bag with cosmoline coated paper plugs in the muzzle and chamber.
Still people seem to go nuts on the ones the CMP are selling, even mix masters.
It also seems like everything went up when the CMP got down to just there auction guns.
Again JMHO.....Frank

[painter777]

IP's were too pricey to Ordnance because of the COSTs part of the contract agreement. The governments costs ran into the millions to set up the old Maceys Factory for carbine production. The Macey factory was leased back to the Irwin-pedersen Co for $1 annualy.Each accepted carbine would result in the Irwins-Pedersen partnership to receive a fixed fee of $2.00 per carbine. Army Ordnance Dept was looking for a reason to dump the IP contract.
Robert Irwin struggled with the Army Ordnance Department in Detroit over delays in essential equipment needed for manufacturing seven different carbine parts. This equipment was to be provided by the Detroit Branch.
The partnership of the Irwins and Pedersen arms Company was more or less a shotgun wedding arranged by the Ordnance Dept. Set up as a cost-plus-fixed-fee agreement was more or less doomed from the start.
In May 1942 the Irwin Bros learned that, without conferring with them, that John Pedersen had hired George Oliver as a production manager for a pricey sum in the day of $18,000 a year to supervise setting up production machinery. Robert Irwin wrote in his log that Pedersen was a capable gun designer but was not a "practical production man".
Should be noted here that John Pedersen held no shares in this enterprise but consulted for a fee of $2000 per month.
In a letter to the Detroit Army Ordnance Dept Robert Irwin described securing parts cleared by Inspectors at other carbine manufacturers, only to have them rejected by Inspectors at his plant.
Detroit ordnance more or less delayed getting the needed equipment to Grand rapids in their effort to close the contract.
In a letter received by the Irwins on March 23, 1943 Army ordnance let it be known, they would be terminating the IP contract as of 12:00 o' clock midnight, March 31, 1943. It was at this time the Irwins were informed that "uncompleted work undertaken by your company will be assumed and completed by the government or by someone the government may choose to designate".
A letter titled "All Employees" on March 24-43 announced that the plant would shut down March 27 and all employees would be terminated.
On the same date C.F. Runchey of Saginaw Steering gear Div informed the workers that the plant would re-open Thursday, April 1 1943 at which time they would become employees of Saginaw Steering Gear Div.
Saginaw Steering Gear Division of General motors was selected to take over all aspects of the contract (under a similar cost per carbine plan as used in Saginaw) Former employees of Irwin-Pedersen now worked for Saginaw Steering gear of General motors. The plant re-opened April 1 1943.
The contract termination did not completely sever the Irwin's family's connection with the M1 carbine. Not only did the M1 carbine stocks made by Robert Irwin Co. and other parts made by Irwin-Pedersen under the original contract go into the carbines manufactured by Saginaw Steering Gear. A few of the Irwin family members began to work for Saginaw Gear.

HTH,
Charlie-painter777

[DaveHH]

There were any number of decisions that were really stupid from a production standpoint. Like having contractors ship their entire lot of parts before a single carbine had cleared the factory. They couldn't even heat treat their firing pins correctly. And when they needed skilled people to change the picture, they were not around. IP was competing with companies that produced complicated mass produced parts on a regular basis, SP, Quality, IBM, Underwood all excelled at what they did. The two companies that were in over their head IP and Rock-Ola both struggled by comparison. Reputation doesn't make things, management and attention to detail does.