No4 Mk1 Cutaway (Skeleton) Action

[Alan de Enfield]

I think I made a good buy yesterday at auction - A Sketeon No4 action, its grubby and looks like it has been overpainted but If I can find somehwere to get it sandblasted and re 'blued' it should be as new.

Any suggestions who to use ?

I've seen these go for 'silly money' but I think the price was reasonable.

It was interesting that the auctioneer (before the auction started) made an annoncement about this lot :

"I have spoken with the Proof House and the Pattern Room and various Police Forces and this item is NOT a firearm. Any skeleton action that has the SKN serial numbers was made by the manufacturer and has never been a 'firearm' it therefore does not need putting 'on ticket'. Any skeleton action that does not have the SKN number has been converted by MOD Armourers, the Gun Trade etc. and therefore has been a firearm. (Once a firearm, always a firearm !!!) and therefore they would be a section 1 firearm.
The only Police Force that will not accept the SKN ones as non-firearms is Yorkshire who insist they are scetion 1"

Information

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[Peter Laidler]

As a matter of interest, the decision regarding that was made with us here at Warminster with all the paperwork. But, all of the SKN rifles started their lives as 'rifles'. They were converted in the 50's by LIST and Co at Dagenham under a big Enfield factory contract programme. List also did the Bren Guns too. But it's good to know that another official Enfield can be collected. To be honest, I think that they form a great part of a collection.

As I understand it, again with guidance from here, the DP's will soon be classified similarly. Maybe they already are. Can EFD help here?

Interestingly, in the 70's, I skeletonised a full length No4, including wood, barrel sections, butt etc etc. In fact, to a far greater degree than the standard SKN rifles and after a few minutes representation my local Police firearms place took it off my licence. On that basis alone, prosecuting a 'real' SKN owner in the future was a lost cause

[birdhound]

Given the barrel length of 9" found on these skeleton actions, SKN marked or not, they would be section 5 rather than section 1 as suggested by Yorkshire police!

[Enfieldlock]

As a matter of interest, the decision regarding that was made with us here at Warminster with all the paperwork. But, all of the SKN rifles started their lives as 'rifles'. They were converted in the 50's by LIST and Co at Dagenham under a big Enfield factory contract programme. List also did the Bren Guns too. But it's good to know that another official Enfield can be collected. To be honest, I think that they form a great part of a collection.

As I understand it, again with guidance from here, the DP's will soon be classified similarly. Maybe they already are. Can EFD help here?

Interestingly, in the 70's, I skeletonised a full length No4, including wood, barrel sections, butt etc etc. In fact, to a far greater degree than the standard SKN rifles and after a few minutes representation my local Police firearms place took it off my licence. On that basis alone, prosecuting a 'real' SKN owner in the future was a lost cause

Peter, I'm taking my L59 to the London Proof House any time now, (just to test your theory).

I'll buy you a beer if it works, if not..............................!

[Alan de Enfield]

As I understand it, again with guidance from here, the DP's will soon be classified similarly. Maybe they already are. Can EFD help here?

What 'standard' of DP'ing is being discussed ?
In the worst/best case scenario isnt a DP a fully functioning rifle but with parts 'out of spec' ?
In other cases it could have anything from a 'clipped' striker to holes thru' the chamber/barrel and cuts thru' the action.

There must be some guidelines as to what a DP is.

[Beerhunter]

There must be some guidelines as to what a DP is.

The problem Alan, is that the definition of "DP" has varied over the years and even between the Armed Services.

For example when I was in the CCF (which was a while ago) I remember that some local ACF units had some DP rifles which, as a Cadet Armourer, I took an interest. The only thing that appeared to have been done to them was clipped firing pins, some DP markings, and and white stripes with "DP" stencilled in black. Compare that to an L59 and you have all the variations between the two.

[Buccaneer]

Interestingly, in the 70's, I skeletonised a full length No4, including wood, barrel sections, butt etc etc. In fact, to a far greater degree than the standard SKN rifles and after a few minutes representation my local Police firearms place took it off my licence. On that basis alone, prosecuting a 'real' SKN owner in the future was a lost cause[/QUOTE]

Some years ago I bought a fully skeletonised full length No4 as described above it only cost me £30 as it was being sold under section 1, it came with a plaque stateing "Rifle , .303 No 4 Mk1 (Skeletonized).
This rifle was the workhorse of the British Army from 1941 until about 1966. This particular rifle, number BN 13849, was made at the Royal Ordnance Factory, Maltby, Yorkshire during the summer of 1944.
It was one of 4,619,349 No 4 rifles made in Mk1,1*,1/2.1/3 and Mk2 versions at factories in Birmingham, Fazakerley, Maltby, Long Branch (Canada) and Chicopee Falls (USA)
Presented to RSM (WO 1) J Pettifar, Royal Fusiliers by the REME Armourers, With Thanks"
It is in immaculate condition and has been "Skeletonised" to a far greater degree the the standard SKN versions , the breech has been cut away to such an extent that it would be impossible to "pin" it as part of the deact regulations, however the bolt is untouched and could be used in another rifle to fire live rounds hence the section 1 clasification, If anyone is interested I will take some photo's of what I assume is a rather rare item.

[enfield303t]

So what are they worth? Which is more valuable a No1 or a No4. I ask as I have a No4 and have a line on a No1 but the owner has to look for the barrel as he took it off years ago?

Holy crap I just read a post by Peter Laidler about people like me I guess asking the value of something, my bad, but still would like to know what they are worth. I know what I paid and interested to see if the No1 is worth more or less.

[Brian Dick]

I imported some to the USA several years ago and had /have to run them on paperwork as BATF&E consider them working firearms. The 9" barrels have to be replaced with 16" to make them legal for sale without being registered under NFA, (National Firearms Act), as "SBR" or short barreled rifles. I still have a couple left to finish.

[peregrinvs]

I saw a couple of No.4 skeleton actions for sale at Beltring last year with deactivation certificates. Would the proof house have passed them 'as is', or would further deactivation work have to be carried out prior to certification?