SMLE Oddball Sniper?

[Buccaneer]

I recently bought an SMLE fitted with a Winchester scope center mounted not side mounted as seems to be the norm. The rifle was made by BSA, it's serial number has no prefix or suffix and it carries a South African acceptance mark, broad arrow inside a U and is in very good condition. The scope appears to be commercial Winchester, the only marks on it are X-8and is about 18 inches long. The mount, which I am told was designed by Parker Hale is in fact engraved BSA and appears to be serial numbered to the rifle. I was told from the dealer that I bought it from that it had come from a museum in Brighton (UK) and it had come to them from Iraq some time in the dim and distant past but how true that is I have no idea. Can anyone shed some light on how the rifle came to be in this configeration and who might have done it ? Any additional information about possible date of manufacture of the rifle would be appreciated. Photos attatched.

Information

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[Thunderbox]

The "XSAW" indicates that the rifle is one of those recently imported into UK from South Africa. Most of these seem to have come from Police stocks, and are usually taken-into-service commercials and refurbished bitsas built by the SA armourers. Since these SA imports have only really been around for the past few years - ie since they surplussed out - I'd hazard a guess that someone in UK has recently been a bit creative in making up a "sniper" rifle.

Bring it along to the next arms fair at Bisley and we can check it out.

p.s. many/most of these SA surplus rifles have been through Holts auctioneers. You might try to see if they have the rifle number on their database.

p.p.s. apart from the barrel, is the rifle in proof? Are the marks on the bolt and bolt head Birmingham or London?

[Buccaneer]

Thanks for the info Thunderbox attatched is photo of bolthead proof mark.

[Son]

To the best of my knowledge no one has successfully deciphered the serial number ranges used by BSA for their commercial rifles to the point where a year of manufacture could be pinned down. There has been a couple of studies done by individuals but with no factory data it remains a mystery. They didn't even date their barrels, and rifles of any prior configuration requested could be built up so model is no help either.

[Thunderbox]

Thanks for the info Thunderbox attatched is photo of bolthead proof mark.

The new London Proof is very strong circumstantial evidence that the rifle is indeed one of the SA imports that have come through Holts in the past year or two.

Nice rifle, but the museum/Iraq story is most likely - as my Hong Kong orderly used to say - "borrocks!"....

[buffdog]

Again, another example of "Buy the rifle-not the story."

At any of the Gun Shows where I have taken a table and offered items for sale, I have always stuck to one principle, and that is ' answer any questions as truthfully as you can'.

When asked about a rifle or item, I only restate what I know or was told about that particular one. The follow up question by the prospective buyer is usually on the lines of "Are you telling the truth?"

My answer to that is "Yes, because I am lazy!" Which gives a surprised look.

I qualify that by telling the person that if I tell them what I know about the item, then three years later when they come back and ask about it, I don't have to try to remember what I had told them.

And, just passing the 70 mark, I find that it is getting more difficult each month to remember a lot of stuff.
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[Roger Payne]

Couldn't agree more. Of the VERY few original SMLE/WA5 mounted snipers I've seen, all were fitted with the typical Whitehead Brothers offset mounts as per Badger's photo's of good lady's rifle! I very much doubt the over bore rails were ever adopted for sniping use.

ATB

[Buccaneer]

Many thanks to all who have taken the trouble to read and comment on this thread. The information given to me at the time of the sale was "honest" in the sense that this is what the seller had been told he did not pretend that it was true only that it was what he had been told. I paid what I considered to be a reasonable price for the rifle and bought it because it was "different" not because it may or may not be worth a lot of money. I have yet to get the rifle onto the range but when I do I will post my findings on the mounting systems performance, either way I have a rifle in my collection that will talked about for some time and one that I hope will give me hours of fun.
The one thing that does trouble me though is if the mount is a copy of an origional Parker Hale item why bother to engrave it with BSA and a serial number or did BSA actually make copies themselves????

[DFJ]

Thanks for the info Thunderbox attatched is photo of bolthead proof mark.

Hi I have some information on your scop mount if you require it.

[Nigel]

I borrowed Adrian Dagger's original Parker Hale mount and had half a dozen copies made, Adrian having his original back plus one copy. The one in the thread has machining marks just like the ones I had made. Therefore I think the BSA marks are fake and added in the last few years. Adrian seemed to be able to get some reasonable scores with his set up. These mounts were always designed to be paired up with the Winchester scopes. The way the scope slides in the mount probably considerably lessons the forces acting on the rail so may help to make the whole set up work more effectively. If you read Parker Hale's advert carefully they seem to claim they they designed this during WW1 - I can only guess that would be for a military application.