Use of Brit SMLE No.4 Mk.1 T by Aust Army in WWII

[gwahlert]

I know that in WWII we (Australian Army) used the SMLE Mk.III* HT, old MkIII T, the P14 and even the US / Dutch Johnson rifle, but I have an record of interview with an old 9th Aust Div sniper who, in Tobruk, 'pinched' a couple of Brit No.4 Mk I Ts for sniper use. They were impressed with their performance, esp. the No.32 scope they had, and brought them back to Aust. However, I can find no photographic record of their use in Aust Army. Anyone have any info about the use of the WWII Brit sniper rifle by Aust Army?

Glenn

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Maxwell Smart]

Morshead's mob might had had a well deserved reputation as scroungers, but to pinch two brand-new telescoped rifles seems a bit over the top.

Do the dates event remotely line up for this to be true?

The seige of Tobruk was lifted in November 1941; would the No4 T have been on issue in Libya that early?

The 9th Division was still in theatre for El Alamein the next year, would seem to be a slightly more plausible time to liberate the rifles.

[trooper554877]

In Damien Parers book 200 pictures , it shows a couple of pics of the aussies using garands during an attack up in the pacific. whilst I realise it's a different are of ops, it does show thye used different weapons than issued. There is a drawing of a 2/6th commando in libya using a breda gun that was captured from the itlaians (wouldn'nt have had much use then) but the dtaes of the No4T like Max said could be out a little maybe. Who knows? anything is possible and probably is!!!

cheers
Ned

[Paul S.]

Actually, there were pictures on the 'other' website showing No.4s in Australian service. Some were pictures identified the troops as being VDG. I seem to recall some commentary at the time about RAAF use and 'home service' use, but none about active service use.

[Paul S.]

Actually, there were pictures on the 'other' website showing No.4s in Australian service. ... I seem to recall some commentary at the time about RAAF use and 'home service' use, ...

The website I referred to was the old Culvers' site. "Maynard", a "banana bender", was a frequent poster and as memory serves he posted comments and pictures (some of which I think were AWM marked) of No4s in Australian hands.

John Sukey who posts here may remember the discussions and may have archived some of the material.

[Pablo]

I bought a book a few weeks ago that was about the aussies in new guinea. On the front cover was a photo of Australian soldiers at Buna in late 1942 and one of them had a no. 4.

[trooper554877]

I bought a book a few weeks ago that was about the aussies in new guinea. On the front cover was a photo of Australian soldiers at Buna in late 1942 and one of them had a no. 4.

If its the same pic its at Sananada.
Also some Vic VDC used some small numbers of No4's, there are official pics to confirm.
The RAAF used No4's in Malaysia/ Borneo and the Army using the No5 up there as well is well known

[Peter Laidler]

A 'mixed fl;eet' is always a thorny one....... The moment something goes wrong that's not in the usual supply chain/Ordnance system, you. 're well and truly f...., er........., knackered. Think Unimogs in the Falklands or Bedfords captured at Dunkirk

It's like all these old fairy stories about someones friends, dads uncles mates patrol who threw their Brens/Stens away and used MG42's or MP40's. Yea....... They might have found and kept one, but they certainly didn't use it as the norm.

That's only my opinion of service life

[bigduke6]

It's like all these old fairy stories about someones friends, dads uncles mates patrol who threw their Brens/Stens away and used MG42's or MP40's. Yea....... They might have found and kept one, but they certainly didn't use it as the norm.

I Know these are possible propaganda pics to boost the moral back home at the time, but I think this guy may of made best use of his MP40, dont know if its the same one on the sherman (if it is a sherman just going by the caption) left of the guy at the front with the No4,

[gwahlert]

Thanks for your replies. I'm writing a book for Aust Army on the history of our snipers / sniping and always like to check oral history, especially going back as far as WWII. It does appear that the Brits got the SMLE No.4 Mk.I T in second-half of 1941 out in the Western Desert, even though it wasn't officially 'realeased' until 1942. There were a few No.4 Mk.Is in service in Aust later in the war (very possibly kit earmarked for Malaya), and our Infantry Centre Museum has a M1 Garand with a scope that was used by a Digger'in WWII. They even have an M1941 Johnson with a P18 scope. But I have seen no record of the sniper vsn of the No.4 Mk.I being used by us, so I might just leave this out.
Thanx, Glenn