New Look at Mark 4 #1* [T] After Reading "An Armourer's Perspective"

[Entry Level]

Hello and thanks for the look,
As many have mentioned before concerning their rifles this T has some contradictory marks also. Electro pencil on the left notes No 4 Mark 1* T. The band indicates M 47 C England 1943 the serial # and a TR. The scope mount N92, a Dalglish. The scope a Mark 1 #75xx just before the new model was issued. The examiners mark on the ramp next to the safety indicates Harrow Road Hollands, "Harry" Hardwick.The small s is on the right side of the action next to wood line. The stock is marked with an S which might mean Specification reject unless done after issue. The front sight is not the split block version which also is a Specification reject. Since the England on the left side butt socket indicates "for a foreign government" were some weapons converted regardless of the rejects? This is a contradiction for me since Peter Laidler indicates these conversions didn't allow "wiggle room". Anyway thanks to all for the information.

Information

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[Beerhunter]

Since the England on the left side butt socket indicates "for a foreign government"

The "England" is actually a mark required by the US Government. It is the country of origin of the rifle when it was imported to the US. In other words it has nothing to do with the British markings. I'll leave those markings to those who are more knowledgeable about them.

[PrinzEugen]

Hello - on the issue of the split block front sight this thread may be of use: Is my 4 (T) fake? the upshot seems to be that although it may have been regarded as specification reject a great many rifles seem to have entered service with a solid block.

On the issue of the stock and the * - pictures would be helpful!

[vintage hunter]

Can you post some photo's? Unless evidence to proove otherwise has turned up recently theres no such thing as a BSA Shirley(M47C) Mk.1*. No.4 Mk.1*'s were only produced in North America by Long Branch and Savage.

[Lee Enfield]

Hello and thanks for the look,
As many have mentioned before concerning their rifles this T has some contradictory marks also. Electro pencil on the left notes No 4 Mark 1* T A number of British No4MkI rifles have been observed marked as No4MkI*, though they are not what we know today as No4MkI* rifles~ it is currently unknown what it refers to. The band indicates M 47 C England 1943 the serial # and a TR. The scope mount N92, a Dalglish. The scope a Mark 1 #75xx just before the new model was issued. The examiners mark on the ramp next to the safety indicates Harrow Road Hollands, "Harry" Hardwick.The small s is on the right side of the action next to wood line. The stock is marked with an S which might mean Specification reject unless done after issue. What style of "S"? this could be a "S"outh coded wood manufacturer or a "S"avage contractor. The front sight is not the split block version which also is a Specification reject. I have yet to see a 1944 dated M47C No4T which has a split block~ call it 25+ No4T's Since the England on the left side butt socket indicates "for a foreign government" were some weapons converted regardless of the rejects? "England" is a postwar import marking, used in the USA (and other countries) to indicate national origin of an imported itemThis is a contradiction for me since Peter Laidler indicates these conversions didn't allow "wiggle room". Anyway thanks to all for the information.

Your rifle and it's markings sound fine.

---------- Post added at 11:30 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:28 AM ----------

Can you post some photo's? Unless evidence to proove otherwise has turned up recently theres no such thing as a BSA Shirley(M47C) Mk.1*. No.4 Mk.1*'s were only produced in North America by Long Branch and Savage.

I've seen several British No4MkI rifles which are marked No4MkI*

I'm interested in the ones marked No4MkI" which I've seen....

[Entry Level]

Thank you all, I am looking at the mark next to the 1 and it does look more like " than an asterisk. There is a small s inside a circle next to the trigger guard and a large S next to the top of the brass butt plate. I have included photos that might help.

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[Beerhunter]

The Crowned BNP mark signifies Birmingham Nitro Proof which was applied by the Birmingham Proof House at some point after it left service.

[Roger Payne]

Hi Entry Level. Your rifle is a perfectly good 1943 BSA Shirley T. The butt is a replacement of Savage manufacture & you will note the US ordnance acceptance 'flaming bomb' close to the S on the underside of the butt. The large S immediately in front of the butt plate indicates it is a short (rather than medium or long) butt.

I have also seen a few BSA 1943 rifles with what looks like speech marks after the receiver engraving. In fact I think I still have at least one. I'll go & look! To be honest I've never thought it had any particular significance & just thought maybe the guy setting up the engraver on that production run had an off-day! I think the same about the Mk1* marks on rifles that aren't. I think someone just goofed.................but I'd be interested to hear if anyone considers either of these variations indicate some subtle differences to the run of production......

Any chance of some more pix of your bracket, particularly of the other side, showing tha numbers & general details of the cradle caps. I'm curious....

Nice rifle.

ATB

[Brian Dick]

Maybe the little " is just a slip of the "scratchy pen" ?

[Entry Level]

Here are pics of the mount caps and id numbers. Thanks for all the info.

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