South African marked SMLE

[ENFORCER 303]

Hi all,

Anyone got any info re South African marked SMLE rifles?
I've just acquired a .303 1944 SMLE, (BSA manufactured I think) The barrel is marked with:

Broad arrow upside down in U.

Lozenge inset with 52 & broad arrow above.

Lozenge inset with 68 & broad arrow above.

What looks like crossed rifle and pitchfork with S and A on either side.

As well as military and civilian proof marks.

The nosecap is stamped SAF.

The wrist is marked with crown, GR, 1944, SHT LE III* and a badly struck B or R.

The action, and woodwork are in almost new condition, with the bolt and boltway in very tight tolerance. I'd think it can't have had more than a hundred rounds through it, as the barrel is mint inside and out. Also the end of the barrel is flush without any crown, or recess.

The most curious thing is that it has no serial numbers on action, barrel or rear sight and I can't find any grinding marks where a number has been removed for FTR.

My best guess would be that it was made as part of a batch destined for South Africa and has been FTR'd and re-barrelled over there, before finding its way back to the UK. Or it has not been issued, hence good condition and lack of serial No.

If you think you can help, let me know and I'll post some photos.

Any help would be gratefully appreciated.

Cheers, Griff.

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Hal O'Peridol]

I've got one, a 1948 dated Fazackerly No4MkI, just has the arrow in a U marking. Nice accurate rifle though. Won a turkey with it once.

[Thunderbox]

The overwhelming majority of SA No1 rifles coming onto the market are rebuilt (often crudely) ex-Police specimens. These are usually either military rifles dating from WW2, or military and commercial rifles bought up by SA in the 1950s.

The SA Police appear to have repeatedly rebuilt their No1s, often out of some fairly worn receivers, and usually without any attempt to match up numbers, wood types or appropriate (from a collectors or military perspective) parts. Quite often these rifles have the SA-marked barrels, and/or DOW-marked wood and metal parts, and/or BSA contract parts - including dual purpose No1/No4 butts, cocking pieces and firing pins.

Often these SA rifles have been parkerised or blued, which can make them look "new".

Enforcer, your rifle was originally a 1944 BSA dispersal rifle. It would have had all-matching numbers with an "N" prefix, beech furniture, and possibly a BSA commercial-marked bolt and/or barrel (the BSA "piled arms" logo). The rifle has since been scrubbed and rebuilt; probably the receiver is all that is left of the original rifle.

Post some photos, and we may be able to tell you more of the story.

[Badger]

You also might want to try our Google CSE custom search engine located in the top right corner below the words "Advanced Search". It only searches our site using Google techniques and can be quite efficient. For example, in your case, type in the words south africa smle and see what happens ..

There's a lot of old discussion threads and pics on the subject.

Regards,
Doug

[ENFORCER 303]

Here are the photos of all the markings I can find.

Cheers, Griff.

[Thunderbox]

Don't think its a South African rifle - its someone's recent "built-from-parts" in UK. All those are common types of parts available in the UK trade - SA barrel, No4 butt, DOW firing pin & cocking piece, BSA bolt, Enfield forend, spare BSA Dispersal receiver. Are the handguards beech originals, or hardwood repros? It looks like an Indian nosecap; does it have a piling swivel lug?

Check:

1. that the inner band screw is not cross-threaded (Enfield screw in a SA BA band);

2. that the rearsight protector nut hole, the inner band hole have metal washers inside;

3. that the front stud and spring are present;

4. that there are BNP proofs on the receiver, bolt head and bolt body.

[ENFORCER 303]

As usual, I stripped, cleaned and re-built this rifle a few weeks ago, when I first bought it. All parts are present, as are the BNP proof marks in all the required places. I've done this with every rifle I've bought for the last 10 years or so, ever since I bought one that didn't meet current requirements!

There are no cross threaded screws and no piling swivel lug. The nose cap is marked SAF and looks just like a Mk III* nose cap in every other respect. I think the woodwork is probably beech apart from the butt, which is a little bit redder in colour than the rest.

As I said in my original post, the action is tight and as new, with no signs of wear, rather than just refinished. I've just stripped the bolt and as well as the DOW marked cocking piece, the firing pin is similarly marked. Incidentally, what does DOW stand for and what is that curious looking mark with the arrow and the two circles on the top of the wrist at the rear of the action, to the left of the bolt way?

I'd tend to agree that the rifle could be a built up one, although I'm sure the action has had very little use, maybe even unissued and that would account for the lack of serial number. There are no numbers or grinding marks on the bolt or the rear sight, which are both showing little or no wear.

On the positive side I have a very good, maybe unissued, SMLE action with a very new barrel and other parts. On the downside when I cleaned the barrel (the rifle had obviously been stored uncleaned) I noticed some rust had started to form in the grooves at the origin of the rifling next to the lead. After thorough cleaning and a couple of applications of JB bore cleaning paste, followed by more thorough cleaning, I can see no sign of pitting.

Thanks for your help and advice, it's much appreciated.

Cheers, Griff.

[Brit plumber]

The arrow and 2 circles mark is a 10% inspection stamp where the government inspector checked this action as part of his 10% check

[the old gringo]

it looks like a nice rifle ! just because she is rebuilt does not mean she wont shoot. armors for most part knew their stuff. if they had good gauges and parts well there you are.good rifle.

[RobD]

Griff, I know of no SA organization which is abbreviated as SAF. I think it is actually stamped SAP (South African Police / Suid-Afrikaanse Polisie) with the tip of the P not stamped perfectly - look under a loupe and see if I might be right. This would fit with what I think is the origin of your (beautiful condition) rifle. The SAP had a pretty big stock of SMLEs, many of which have been sold off in the last few years; some of which are in near-mint condition, because as you can imagine there was not a lot of shooting of .303s done by the SAP, even in the dark days of apartheid. I think it very likely your rifle was built from parts some time in the 1940s or 1950s by the SAP. The broad-arrow-in-a-U dates the rifle to pre-1961 when the Union (hence the U) of SA became the Republic of SA. One of our regular forummers, and a dear friend of mine, TerryLee, in Johannesburg is THE world expert on British rifles used in/by South Africa, and you might PM him to ask more about this rifle. If no luck, PM me and I'll hook you up to him.

What puzzles me is the lack of any serial number - how on earth is the rifle logged on your firearms certificate?!?

Rob