An Interesting little Carbine

[Buccaneer]

I think this BSA "volunteer" carbine started life as a charger loader rifle as the volly sight screw holes are still in the butt socket. It is undated but otherwise well marked and all matching including the sight ladder, it has a windage adjustable rearsight and is in overall very good condition for its age, the bore is excellent, bright with good rifiling. I assume (never a wise thing to do) that this was probably made for an officer as I can't find any reference to this carbine in any of the books I have. Although it is fitted with a bayonet nose cap the standard "Long Lee" bayonet does not fit as the barrel at this point is to big, but then what officer would use a bayonet when you can assult the enemy with a swagger stick and a pistol in hand!!!!
Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Bindi2]

My thoughts are that it was used as a range rifle. The holes on the wrist is where the peep sight attached to the rifle

[Surpmil]

Nice old thing with a handsome bit of wood on it. What does "GG16" stand for?

Is this as far as the bolt will close?

[Bruce_in_Oz]

Looks like somebody's attempt at a "home-brew" R.I.C. carbine.

"Fish-belly mag looks to be "commercial / sporter" type, common on BSA, etc. "sporters" of the early 20th Century..
Sights are a bit odd.
LM, LE and RIC carbines don't have a charger guide.
RIC's have litle "extra" collar at the muzzle to build up the LEC barrel diameter to support the P-88 bayonet.
If this barrel is too FAT to take the '88, it would have to be made from a rifle barrel of Metford / Enfield spec.
If it were "factory-made" as a carbine, the bolt "knob' would be flattened and the handle swept forward.

Not enough visible markings to go any further.

It's ringing a bell, but I think it's an alarm bell.

If you could get if for beer money, it might be an interesting conversation piece of a good source of parts.

[Rowdy]

I think Buccaneer is right - it is based on a BSA territorial service pattern CCLE that has been shortened to a 19" barrel and had the nose cap, foresight, magazine butt and slightly shortened fore end from a trade pattern carbine fitted.
According to my measurements the muzzle would be about 117mm as opposed to the normal diameter of about 16.5mm for the 1888 bayonet.
Still quite a nice rifle all made from commercial BSA parts.

[Buccaneer]

A very good friend found this information in an old BSA catalogue unfortunately not dated but would seem to be early 1900's. It would appear that the charger guide was an optional extra!!
This information seems to answer all the questions, we should remember that not all Enfield Rifles were made specifically for the military and as such should not be dismissed out of hand just because they don't appear to conform to the recognised military spec as Peter has said many times "never say never" when it comes to Enfield rifles.

[Brit plumber]

Is it a No.3 Trade pattern then? Who would have bought these? Serving Officers as a private purchase for Service use or maybe Serving officers wanting a more sporty looking rifle for game shooting in the Commonwealth (but still using freely available .303 ammo thanks to HRH Queen Vicky).

[Bruce_in_Oz]

Note the 7mm and 8mm "options" in the catalogue list.

[bouletbill]

Note the 7mm and 8mm "options" in the catalogue list.

Interesting to see that the 8mm option (.315") is still manufactured as a modernised SMLE sporter by IOF (India) ... as is also a .32" Mk3 Webley.

[RobD]

Buccaneer, whilst your carbine is later than the Anglo-Boer War (charger bridge and sight upgrade indicate this) it may be of some interest that very similar carbines were in use in the ABW, before the RIC carbines (1904 onwards) came out.
I attach a famous picture of Jan Smuts, the Boer general, in 1901, and a closeup of an officer in the front row. He has a Lee Enfield carbine with a carbine-style bolt, no barrel band, and a rigby nosecap. I imagine this to be an Imperial officer's private purchase arm, which has been captured by the Boers. This is not an military pattern of carbine. (Note: this photo is taken during the guerilla phase of the ABW; the picture is located in the Cape during the invasion by Smuts' commando; Gen Maritz is by Smuts' side; many Boer officers are wearing khaki uniforms). Thus your carbine is a later version of a line of carbine-length MLEs which were popular by 1901. Unlike the one in the photo, yours does not have a turned-down bolt head.