P.14 Military Match 1963 rifle?

[Promo]

I received today a P.14 heavy barrel rifle. It was being advertised as being made up for a Military Match in Prague/Czech Republic in 1963 for the British Army. I'm not sure how true this can be, however it's an amazingly tuned Match rifle.

It has been converted to single shot (it does have a follower, but it doesn't have a magazine - the stock is solid in that area), the barrel bears "SCHULZ & LARSEN OTTERUP" markings, British proofed (but not sure what they really mean, they probably could fill a book!). The trigger is reworked (extremely nice), and take special note of the adjustable size rear peep hole! I've never seen one like this before.

Does anyone here have additional comments to this rifle? Were there really (according to the seller) only six of those being built and used in 1963 in Prague?

All the Best,

Georg

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[Patrick Chadwick]

It was being advertised as being made up for a Military Match in Prague/Czech Republic in 1963 for the British Army.

Since Schulz & Larsen is in Otterup, DENMARK, I fail to see why anyone should be using their (excellent!) barrels in what was then CZECHOSLOVAKIA to make up match rifles for the BRITISH ARMY.

On the other hand, I understand that Denmark did have some P14s, from WW2, and in the 60s Schulz & Larsen certainly did make up match rifles on K98 and Gew98 actions - i.e. good surplus actions - I have one, made up on an Imperial German Gew98 action, and it is a very fine rifle. I therefore suspect that this is one of that kind, and has nothing to do with the Czechs at all!

Unless someone can come up with documentation, treat it all as a story, and just enjoy shooting with the rifle!

[Promo]

Patrick,

I agree with that, however note that the rifle is not proofed like a usual S&L barrel, but has all kinds of British proof marks and absolutely unique Parker Hale features. That is what irritates me most.

[Patrick Chadwick]

I think Promo and TonyE have got it right. I fail to see anything about this rifle that indicates a connection with the British Army or Prague. As I wrote previously:

Unless someone can come up with documentation, treat it all as a story, and just enjoy shooting with the rifle!

And it should be an excellent shooter.

---------- Post added at 11:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:01 AM ----------

and take special note of the adjustable size rear peep hole! I've never seen one like this before.

I have a couple. A standard Parker component of the period. More common are rotating 6-hole discs with a spring detent.

[Paul S.]

The caliber notation on the barrel in the fourth photo is interesting. '7.62/m 2.01"'. I see two options there and neither is 0.303 British.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ommongif-1.jpg

[TonyE]

I cannot comment on the British army connection but that is a very typical British target rifle of the period. When the NRA changed from .303 inch to 7.62mm NATO for target shooting many hundreds of Pattern '14 rifles were converted in this way. It could have been done by any number of professional target shooting gunsmiths in the UK. If these were made for a British army team shooting in some international match in Prague then they were probably built in a REME workshop specialising in target work. The army was very active in target shooting at that time and still has a very large clubhouse at Bisley.

Schulz & Larsen barrels were very popular in the UK for this work, as were barrels and converted Mauser 98 actions from Kongsberg in Norway. The proofing is also normal British pattern, "7.62m" for the NATO round calibre and "2.01" for the case length in inches.

Those rifles are still around, often as "club" guns on which newcomers can start to learn the ropes.

Regards
TonyE

[Chuckindenver]

nice.. i notice this one was put together without the use of a shim at the barrel...id bet it performs nicely.

[Promo]

Guys, any idea upon the caliber of the rifle? The bolt head is identical to all P.14 bolt heads and holds a .303 British perfect, however the .303 is too long for the chamber. So is there any rimmed cartridge which is shorter than the .303 and in 7.62 caliber?

Edit: removed the stock. The trigger is something I've never seen before, completely replaced and something "hidden in a silver box". Trigger pull is extremely light, the release point is crystal clear and breaks like glass. Rifle is bedded in the stock (which is slightly inletted for the magazine feeder and the spring (guess it would have a capacity of one or two shots in the magazine, probably for a Match where only a few shorts were needed?).

[Patrick Chadwick]

The bolt head is identical to all P.14 bolt heads and holds a .303 British perfect, however the .303 is too long for the chamber.

The glaringly obvious thing to do is to ignore the bolt head and see if a 7.62x51 round will chamber.
If it does chamber
AND considering that
- the rifle has been proofed and marked for 7.62x51 (or 7.62 / 2.01" in British style)
AND considering that
- the bolt appears to have been renumbered (see in particular the next-to-last figure 7, which seems to be stamped over a rounded figure, such as 8 or 0)
THEN it may well have had a "correctly incorrect" bolt retrofitted, as suggested by Johnny Peppers.

---------- Post added at 12:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:28 PM ----------

however I found out that this rifle was used in the military biathlon matches in Pilsen/Czech Republic and was presented to a high rank military as a gift. Will get more information as it came from the estate of this person, but it might take some time!

Which - if true - would rule out use of .307 Winchester, as being a non-military caliber. And unless the above story is supported by documentation, then it is just a family story.

[ssj]

The glaringly obvious thing to do is to ignore the bolt head and see if a 7.62x51 round will chamber.
If it does chamber
AND considering that
- the rifle has been proofed and marked for 7.62x51 (or 7.62 / 2.01" in British style)
AND considering that
- the bolt appears to have been renumbered (see in particular the next-to-last figure 7, which seems to be stamped over a rounded figure, such as 8 or 0)
THEN it may well have had a "correctly incorrect" bolt retrofitted, as suggested by Johnny Peppers.[COLOR=black]

However the bolt head is replacable, hence a re-numbered bolt body (or not) is moot.

If its a 308w, I assume swapping in a P17 head would see it chamber? as I'd expect a 308winchester round for 1963 year target shooting.

regards