Mystery SMLE No1 Mk 1

[KiwiLee]

Have a Question, a SMLE No 1 Mk 1 that is all original as a Mk 1 , it doesn't have any of the * ( star ) improvements of later rifles, research shows that Mk1's were dated 1902 , with improved * , ** , *** rifles coming along after this time ie 1906, 1908 an 1914, as per photo my BSA Mk 1 shows a date of 1910 ???? - why ? , am I missing something under my nose , I have seen one other in NZ with same markings and that owner believes there are more about - thanks

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[owengun]

I remember reading somewhere in the past that New Zealand has a lot of these 1910 dated Mk.1's floating around. I think the reason was that they still had not upgraded their ammo from the old pattern and had ordered a new batch from BSA who just cranked out another batch of Mk.1's for them. The NZ rack number is strange as in that the lower number (05) usually is taken to mean the year it was taken into service there, which would imply 1905, maybe that was when they were ordered, which would then make more sense. NZ went to war in WW1 with MK.1 rifles and only upgraded to Mk.III's and Mk.III*'s in theatre.

[Colonel Enfield]

NZ went to war in WW1 with MK.1 rifles and only upgraded to Mk.III's and Mk.III*'s in theatre.

I've seen 1918 dated Mk III* rifles with NZ markings on them, which indicates to me they were ordering brand-new rifles by the time the war ended rather than just going for whatever was on clearance from the gun trade.

[glen chappelle]

My 1904 Enfield Mk 1 also has 05 under the rack number

[5thBatt]

I've seen 1918 dated Mk III* rifles with NZ markings on them, which indicates to me they were ordering brand-new rifles by the time the war ended rather than just going for whatever was on clearance from the gun trade.

The story here is NZ troops waiting to return home after the war, handed in their battle worn rifles & were issued new rifles, hence the rarity of earlier NZ marked MkIII SMLEs, the Mk1s remained in NZ & were apparently used for training.

[Colonel Enfield]

The story here is NZ troops waiting to return home after the war, handed in their battle worn rifles & were issued new rifles, hence the rarity of earlier NZ marked MkIII SMLEs, the Mk1s remained in NZ & were apparently used for training.

That makes sense and sounds like something the NZ Government would do (especially because it meant they didn't have to pay extra to ship all the new rifles back home!)

[Roy]

Around 1912 the mounted rifles were rearmed with MkIII's and their MkI's were issued to senior cadet forces.

After the first echelon of the 1st NZ Div left NZ in 1915 (carrying MLE's) there was such a shortage of SMLE's in NZ that NZ reinforcements left the country unarmed and the troops were armed from British stores upon arrival in England perhaps this occurred in 1917 -18 as a high proportion of SMLE's here are from those dates. Both of my NZ marked 1917-18 actions have 1920 barrels on them and had windage sights. Possibly from a mass post ww1 refurbishment of ww1 worn rifles here . My 1908 NZ SMLE was rebarreled with a 1941 Lithgow barrel, so at least some of the early pre ww1 NZ SMLE's soldiered on to their next war and I have seen a picture from Crete of a Kiwi section with sunlight reflecting off the volley sight plates of their rifles.

[ssj]

I've seen 1918 dated Mk III* rifles with NZ markings on them, which indicates to me they were ordering brand-new rifles by the time the war ended rather than just going for whatever was on clearance from the gun trade.

By then I'd assume there would have been nothing lying around to by cheap....

[Roy]

According to the Sullivans book The New Zealand Mounted rifles received No. 1 Mk 1's in between 1910-1913, the infantry had MLE's until Gallipoli. The examples I have seen are dated 1904, and 1910 though there may be other dates. The 05 on the wrist is probably a batch number. Perhaps a sticky tread on NZ wrist markings would add more to the subject. NZ most likely bought outdated rifles because they were cheap! (they bought 50K odd second hand MLE's in 1914) and yes the CAC were making Mk6 .303 until at least 1917. Sht LE's sighted to Mk6 have a more pronounced hump on the sight bed and many No1 Mk1's were re-sighted post 1910 when Mk7 .303 was introduced, though initially Mk7 was reserved for the Machine Gun Corp. Mk6 .303 was still widely used in the early years of WW1. I have never seen any NZ marked No1 Mk1's with the '*' upgrades.

[KiwiLee]

Thanks guys - I think you are on the right track - the Govt was tight 100 yrs ago ( still much the same today with defence spending ) , BSA fulfilled any order from NZ with what they had on hand at the right ( cheap ! ) price.