No5 Mk1 from Old Western Scrounger

[intellivore]

Good afternoon, my fine fellows!

I have just recently, within the past week, obtained from Old Western Scrounger one of their last '#5 Jungle Carbine Grade 2 Rifle' stock. As of this writing there are 5 left. I paid a little over $300.00 for it, shipped, and by the description I was expecting a real project rifle. perhaps a few parts needing replacement, definite carpentry required, possibly a whole new barrel.

Once I got the old girl home from my local FFL dealer, I was AMAZED. I had given it a cursory inspection, and was delighted to see that little to no carpentry was needed, the stock was in decent shape, a bit beaten, a bit worn, a few chips missing, but overall in good shape, the draws looked almost new, to my untrained eye. I proceeded to disassemble the rifle, placing all the metal bits save the barreled receiver, flash-hider and front sight blade, into a bath of denatured alcohol, to dissolve the cosmoline.

While the bits were soaking, I took a crack at the barreled receiver, scrubbing it as clean as possible, uncovering the faint, barely legible markings on the receiver to come out a touch more than the were before, reading, in part; No5Mk1 ROF (F) ???? 6/45 N????. On the wrist I found an interesting mark, wither P M P, F M F, or a variation of those along the left wrist of the stock cup, below the N2XXX serial number. Then I took a good hour with my Hoppes #9 and three different bore brushes, 75 patches and a good long jag, and lo, one cannot look down the barrel without being blinded! The rifling is well defined, very apparent, and very crisp.

Taking the wood, I used some degreasing dishsoap, a scrub brush and gently worked over the stock, pulling out some of the cosmline. Scrubbing the bits and bobs in the denatured alcohol was a breeze, removing all traces of the cosmoline. during the reassembly of the barreled action, everything fit together nice and tight, and the trigger pull feels lighter than my well used No4Mk1/2. The bolt is from a different No5, with an ACXXXX serial. The only piece to not survive the disassembly is the poor rubber recoil pad, which tore along the upper and lower edges despite an application of oil to ease it out of the plate.

All in all, this rifle is a non-matching mutt of a rifle, beautiful in every way, the bolt flies open eagerly, the bore looks to be used, but with alot of life left in her.

Now, my friends, to the tricky bit!
The flash-hider is stamped M47C.
The reciever wrist is stamped N2XXX.
The bolt is stamped ACXXXX.
The FMF/PMP/PMF/FMP mark on the wrist.

I am assuming (evil and wrong, I know!) that during it's life, she got an armorers or factory repair for a damaged flash-hider, hence the Shirley markings. The bolt was a bin-grab. But I cannot find anything on the wrist stamping! Can any of you, most knowledgeable elders, help?

Unfortunately I cannot post any pictures at this time, as I am waiting for my classes to start and the rifle is at home. But I promise to post them as soon as I can!

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[Seaspriter]

Intellivore: Glad you got a good one, even if it's patched together from the Old Scrounger's parts bin. Apparently Gibbs got a load of excellent, good, and poor Mk5s. The poor ones, from what I surmise, where taken apart and serviceable guns reconstructed from the parts bin. Glad you got a good one. Does it have the 800 yd sight?

Before you shoot it, make sure you don't find any "DP" markings on the gun -- it means it was marked as "Drill Practice" meaning something was defective. You might want to check the Cartridge Head Space before taking it to the range. A parts bin bolt may not have the right head spacing.

You can get replacement rubber butts for about $25. I think I saw them advertised at Sparco and Numrich.

The M-47 (that's not a date) marking on the Flash hider is the BSA (Birmingham Small Arms, Shirley) manufacturer's identification. Both my Fazakerley and BSA Jungle Carbines have the M-47 marking on their flash hiders. (It doesn't mean a Factory Repair was done to the flash hider.)

Yours is a Royal Ordinance Factory Fazakerley, Lancashire: (ROF) F
About 250,000 were produced -- 2/3rds the production at Fazakerley the other 1/3rd BSA Shirley.
The Serial Number is NXXX, which would be consistent with a 8/45 manufacturer.
The bolt stamped ACXXXX is from a Fazakerley Mk5 produced between Sept-Dec 1947

FMP means it was used by the Federation of Malaysian Police -- makes an interesting story.

I bought the last Grade 1 Jungle Carbine the Old Scrounger had in stock in November and was delighted. A great buy at $500. It far exceeded my expectations, matching receiver/bolt #s, almost unblemished furniture, bright barrel, and good butt plate.

If Cheaper Than Dirt has any surplus 303 HXP ammo left, buy some -- it's a good deal.

Good luck with the Restoration

[intellivore]

Seasprinter:
I got what looks to be a darned good one! With the minor exception of some small pitting on the barrel exterior, she's in tip-top shape!
There are no stampings for Drill Purpose, and unfortunately I have no headspace gauges as yet for it. It will chamber factory ammo, but not oncefired from my No4. Since my No4 closed only on the GO gauge, i think it might be fine. But, better safe than sorry.
Ive ordered the replacement recoil pad from Liberty Tree Collectors, and have started to save up for a Cat-Technik/DAI Management no-tap mount. Looks close enough to the No32 mount to fool the uninitiated, but wont ruin the receiver. That in mind, I installed the MkII Flip sight, and have the 2-800 yd vernier set aside in my parts box.
I mistakenly ordered No4 Mk1 wood for my No4 Mk1/2, so i have a half done replacement if the forestock needs it in the future. I'm going to carve out some ironwood blocks to fit on the draws if need be.
So at one point my carbine was property of the Malaysian Gov't? That is an interesting story, indeed!
Sadly CTD wont ship way up north to Alaska. But i have the means and meager ability to reload, and there is a way to get the Greek stuff occasionally here.
I plan on stripping the wood, refinishing it, and coating it in a matte polyurethane to weatherproof the wood, and bedding it, to DCRA or better spec, and giving the fading receiver markings a slight and careful facelift.
If she's a Fazakerley, she's a sister to my 1943 No4, and that pleases me greatly! Having both and restoring both of them to issue spec, then improving their accuracy for my children to enjoy will time well spent.

Side note for my No4, on the left side of the charging bridge, there is what appears to be a circular weld. My new No5 has a similar slight discoloration in the same spot. Any clue what that might be?

Thanks for the info, its a great thing to be able to ask the knowledgeable about things, and be able to pass that knowledge on!

[Seaspriter]

Intellivore, good luck with the project. Try to have a friend in the lower 48 order and reship that Greek Surplus ammo to you -- it's very high quality Boxer primed, so it's reloadable.
For finishing the stock, you might find the following link useful: Dropbox - Laws Principles of Enfield Restoration V1.1.pdf
Good luck

[Seaspriter]

Intellivore -- I think you may have struck on a great place to use a Grade 2 Jungle Carbine -- as a Brush Gun in Alaska. I'd never take my high grade JCs hunting (just target shooting), but yours is perfect since the dinging and banging has already been done to the gun by the Malaysian Police. Go hunting with a buddy and have him take the No.4 for long range shooting.

And if you are in Grizzly Bear country or are facing an attack by Wild Boars, you can mount a reproduction bayonet to fend off the angry beasts. Of course, a fur-lined Tommy Helmet would make a great addition to let all the wild animals know you've "Gone Brit!" Think of the stories you could tell your grandchildren! ....a global gun that's gone from the "Jungles of Malaysia to the Highlands of Alaska." (A story like this just might increase the value of the gun; you can make it a legendary historic weapon.)

Just don't wander into Canada to complete the "Commonwealth Experience" -- they don't like Americans with guns -- reminds them of the Americans burning York in 1813, the WhoopUp Whiskey Forts of the 1870s, and the Klondike Gold Rush -- the RCMP has lingering memories

In other words, have some fun with the gun.

[browningautorifle]

they don't like Americans with guns

Doesn't bother me one bit...it's customs that has a phobia...

[Seaspriter]

Doesn't bother me one bit...it's customs that has a phobia...

So true. I cross the border 10-20 times a year and know how tough it can be. Imagine if I wanted to repatriate my 1942 Long Branch to its native land! Customs & Immigration would not see the honour in such a subversive act; CSIS might confuse me with a terrorist; I'd feel like a German at Vimy Ridge.

[intellivore]

All hail the seaspriter!!!!!

[Peter Laidler]

You ought to leave all that grease between the rifle body and barrel and the woodwork. It;'s there for a GOOD reason, especially up where you are based! Now that you've taken all the gunbge out of the woodwork you ought to set about it with BLO. And plenty of it in my limited experience.

[Seaspriter]

leave all that grease between the rifle body and barrel and the woodwork

Hi Peter,
You've mentioned the XG 279 Grease in other posts. The US its equivalent was produced 50 years ago as "Rifle Grease," but it seems hard to find. What would you recommend as a common replacement? Should we put the grease any other places ?

I'm also a car restorer -- would any other common greases meet standard? (lithium? ball-bearing? marine? gear? etc). Brownells carries a Lubriplate product that seems like a good alternative: http://www.brownells.com/gun-cleanin...-prod6525.aspx What's your expert opinion?

Does the grease help curb the wandering zero (you've commented on this before, but I don't recall if grease helped).

And thanks to all the "league of experts" on the Milsurps website that have contributed so much to my knowledge about Enfields and other old military weapons. Your commitment and willingness to share is extraordinary.

Robert