Need help identifying this Mauser

[45aseep]

Looking for some help. I have what I believe to be a k98 mauser. I'm having trouble identifying it's origin, date of manufacture, history, etc. Searched quite a bit on the internet, but I'm confused. The only markings on it are the ones in the photos. There are no cartouches or markings on the receiver other than what the photos show. There are no markings on the top of the receiver, as I have seen in other photos on the web. Can anyone help me?

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[UNPROFOR1994]

It's a 1920's Polish Mauser Model 98AZ carbine used in the Spanish Civil War. When they shipped them to Spain they scrubbed the receivers. The letter A on the stock is typical for rifles used during the SCW.

[Sarge]

Yep, he nailed it.
Sarge

[browningautorifle]

Any chances of complete pics? Just a couple of end to end...?

[45aseep]

Thanks for the info guys. Sure thing on the pictures.
Got a few questions if anyone can help.

Anyway to accurately date it to date of manufacture?
Did the Poles make it, are is it originally german?
Any guesses on its value?
Most importantly, can I shoot regular current commercial 8mm in it?
After originally posting, I looked it over again and found an interesting cartouche on the stock. Anyone recognize it?

Thanks again for the help.

[UNPROFOR1994]

Anyway to accurately date it to date of manufacture?
Did the Poles make it, are is it originally german?

I think it is a Polish KBK Wz. 98 carbine, an almost identical copy of the the WW1 German Kar. 98AZ carbine, made at PFK Warsaw or FB Radom some where between 1925 and 1931. I can't narrow it down any more, maybe one of the other members can.

Any guesses on its value?

Start searching the web, the anwser is out there.

Most importantly, can I shoot regular current commercial 8mm in it?

Yes, but before you do, have gunsmith check the weapon, just to be safe.

[45aseep]

Thanks for the help. Your push lead me to a thread on GunBoards that has some interesting information that I am going to spend some time with. Have really enjoyed learning about this rifle. I will venture that this gun has seen quite a bit of combat action. A little bummed that it is not a German K98, yet this is the only Polish one that I have knowingly come across. Couldn't find an approximate value for it. I know it's probably not worth much.

[sd4f]

Anyway to accurately date it to date of manufacture?
Did the Poles make it, are is it originally german?
Any guesses on its value?
Most importantly, can I shoot regular current commercial 8mm in it?
After originally posting, I looked it over again and found an interesting cartouche on the stock. Anyone recognize it?

The really short history of interwar rifle production in Poland is that after the first world war, Poland was given all the equipment and machinery from the Danzig factory, which was promptly relocated from Danzig/Gdansk and iirc was for a short while In Warsaw, but ultimately ended up in Radom. This infrastructure included a lot of parts, and those parts were used up to complete rifles, and new production went underway as well filling any shortfalls. There are rifles which were completed by the Poles, but still using parts such as receivers made by the Prussians.

I'm not too sure about the really early production, i.e. immediately after WW1, as very soon after WW1, the Poles had to fight a war with the soviets. From what I've read, much of the firearms used were anything they could get their hands on, as a result, after the Polish - Soviet war of 1919-1921, they then embarked on standardising their armament ultimately choosing the mauser platform.

Now some opinions are that the rifles sent for the Spanish Civil War was a lot of these bitsers completed from parts. It's hard to tell, that one looks identical to my one, except for the scrubbed receiver. The main difference between the Danzig K98AZ is the stacking hook, where the Danzig ones had a bent one, while the Polish one has the milled example as seen on your rifle.

Now firing commercial ammo, US stuff is generally underpowered. It should be .323 groove diameter, so full powered stuff should be fine. I have an unscrubbed K98 and have fired it with full power loads, and it has no issues. One oddity with them is that they're a small ring action, standard length with a large ring thread.

[45aseep]

Now firing commercial ammo, US stuff is generally underpowered. It should be .323 groove diameter, so full powered stuff should be fine. I have an unscrubbed K98 and have fired it with full power loads, and it has no issues. One oddity with them is that they're a small ring action, standard length with a large ring thread.

Thanks for the info. What do you mean when you say they're a small ring action, standard length with a large ring thread? Not sure I follow you on that.

[sd4f]

Thanks for the info. What do you mean when you say they're a small ring action, standard length with a large ring thread? Not sure I follow you on that.

The main physical variations with M98 actions are in those three aspects, ring diameter came in either large or small, where large had a 1.410" diameter, while small ring had 1.300" diameter. Following picture will show the difference;


Thread diameter generally followed with this, since there was more material when the design went up to 1.410", the thread was larger, I think, I'm not sure what thread M96 or earlier Mausers used, so chronologically it may be off. There are some exceptions to this as the Danzig and Polish small ring actions had the same diameter thread shank as regular large ring actions. Meanwhile, there's the Turkish Mausers which had a large ring, but used a small thread shank. The following picture should give you an idea of the difference, however, I believe that the actions on display are small ring large thread, and on the right a turkish large ring small thread.



Lastly action length. Standard length is most common. There are some M98 actions which were made to intermediate length, which is a few millimetres shorter overall. I'm not entirely sure where the reduction was made, but I believe it was in the magazine area. Bolts are not interchangeable as far as I know. Mexican Mausers, Yugoslavian ones and the 1909 Argentine are most notable as being intermediate length.