P14 Mad Minute

[Eaglelord17]

Hi all,

Well for this summer I have decided to train myself how to do the mad minute. Currently I am at 15rds a minute (on target accurate shots) with my P14 and I am hoping to get up to somewhere in the 20-25rds a minute.

Fortunately to help me do this affordably I pull 7.62x39 bullets and the powder and reuse them in .303 British, which is giving me a nice cheap load to practice with (currently about 10 cents a round). This also helps as since I am a natural lefty, it is giving my right shoulder a brake as otherwise it would be taking a beating as I am trying to also learn to shoot right handed.

My only issue is once I started to use this load the rounds aren't stacking in the magazine properly. I have the chargers loaded _-_-_ like they should be, however with the smaller bullets they are going into the magazine that exact same way as well, resulting in rimlock (which isn't good when you are trying for speed). I was wondering if anyone has any potential solutions to this problem, other than loading the chargers differently as I want to use them the way they were intended (I also intend to use properly loaded ammo once I get the technique down pat).

Any pointers and advice would be appreciated.

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[CINDERS]

///// try that way I have seen chargers loaded that way for MkIII's with no rim overs, are the rounds that much shorter than a standard Mk VII you may have to seat them further out and crimp them so the projie does not skew when it hits the feed ramp.

[browningautorifle]

I agree, can you possibly seat them out further? I know you only have so much to work with...

[Eaglelord17]

Well the overall length of the loaded ammo is only 2.887, normally when I am using larger bullets I go for 3.070-3.075. There just isn't enough meat on the bullet to stretch it out enough, so I would rather have it seated nicely than trying to barely have it seated. I might try changing up the chargers just for this type of ammo well I practice, as it is more about learning the technique for cheap than anything else (I would rather pay 10 cents a round well practicing, than 50 cents a round, one regular round pays for a full charger of the cheap stuff and it isn't bad for accuracy either).

I might also try thumbing the last round forward with the standard charger position. If I can get the first round out of rimlock I should be able to not worry about the rest of them (as a side note, rim lock is brutal, I wonder how many people have been unfortunate enough to have received that in combat)

[Eaglelord17]

Well went out today and managed to 20rds at 50m on target in a minute. Overall it went ok, the main thing I was losing time on was the reloads. For whatever reason most the chargers were wanting to bind today, and those that weren't I had to take a extra couple seconds to ensure there was no rimlock on the shorter rounds. Another thing I noticed is if the bolt is even slightly out of battery the gun will be unable to fire, which screws you up as after you have squeezed the trigger your already moving your head away for the bolt to cycle back, not forcing down the bolt fully and placing your head back on the stock.

[scoobsean]

I saw the mad minute demonstrated on Top Shot once. It was suggested by Ian Harrison that the bolt was cycled using the thumb and index finger and the trigger pulled with the middle finger. This means that the hand stays on the bolt all the time. I'm not sure if this actually would work because you no longer are holding the stock firmly, but it was an interesting idea.

[Eaglelord17]

Its how I have been practicing except I am using my thumb and first two fingers on the bolt, well my ring finger pulls the trigger. I have also been using a sling on the rifle to help hold the rifle into the shoulder you need to keep it tight to cycle the bolt quickly (in particular the cock on closing part is usually where the rifle leaves the shoulder if it is going to, and that is a critical point as you need to get your head back on the stock to see the sights again so you can snap shoot).

[Wineman]

EL17,

You seem to have the knack. I don't think I could get that rate of fire with my M1917, and the rimless 30-06, although you can usually start off with 6. The MK III and IV are much faster, and with 10 per reload, you can really scoot. The Mk V might be just as fast but I have never tried one and you might have issues staying on the target ;-).

You might want to switch to cast bullets as a kinder and gentler alternative (both you and the rifle). I only shoot cast these days in matches and out to 200, I am in the mix, 600 not so much. My only concern is the MM really can heat up a barrel, and hot barrels wear much faster. If you have a spare, no worries do as you like. Criterion can probably get you a new 303 barrel for $225 or so.

Dave

[Eaglelord17]

I have only been shooting at 50m, I suspect as I start to get farther it will be harder. My goal is my big bullseye target at 100m with 25rds a min as that is the maximum distance I have available. Fortunately I have some nice light loads that don't punish me at all, but are very accurate.

I am not sure the 10rds a reload the Lee Enfields have would make that much a difference, as it is more about how quickly your throwing lead downrange accurately (i.e. lining up your sights quickly, anyone can work a action quickly). Since your still loading from 5rd chargers your reloads take just as long, just doing two at a time instead of one (this is the logic the Swiss actually adopted when they went from 12rd magazines to 6rd magazines). I have also heard of people doing the mad minute with the Lee Enfield and only doing once charger at a time because your not fighting as much spring pressure in the magazine.

At some point I do intend to start casting, however that will likely be a fall project for me. Some of the rifles I have been collecting really need it as there isn't commercial bullets available in the weights I want/need to make the rifles work properly. Best example I have is my Austrian M95 in 8x50r, as it requires a 244grn round nose .323 diameter bullet, and the closest commercial bullet is a 170grn .323 round nose, which isn't even remotely close, the bullets end up about .250 off the lands. I am also fortunate in that my P14 has a mint bore on it, likely what makes it such a great shooter (also still has the volley sights). I am not too worried about barrel ware at the moment, I am pretty balanced in taking my milsurps shooting (it is a pretty long rotation schedule). Only recently have I only been taking the P14 and that is solely because I want to achieve my mad minute goal (still only firing 50rds a go). I think once I have done that goal, I will try to do the mad minute with a variety of milsurps and see how they compare for speed shooting. I might even record them and post them on here.

[CINDERS]

What I used to do was roll the rifle to the Rt slightly keeping the head in place cycle the bolt back to battery whilst rolling it back to the cheek weld everything lines up nicely as you pulling back with the left hand (Which also rolls the rifle) it is then just a case of opening the fingers of the Rt hand to grip the wrist of the butt easy peasy with practice can be used in all positions except the recumbent, and the trussed chicken (X legged and tucked up my italics)