N0.7 Mk.1/L Bayonet

[lawrence_n]

Well, here's a "head-scratcher"! I recently acquired the above mentioned bayonet in pretty good shape. Though not exactly rare, they aren't that thick on the ground either (at least not hereabouts). What makes this one noteworthy is the scabbard. It's a cut-down '07 pattern scabbard! It's been the source of some speculation on another forum. One guy thought it was a home-made job (not so, since I've seen several of them) and one other gentleman thought the scabbard was from an India pattern bayonet (not so, blade would have been too long to fit). I haven't been able to find any information thus far regarding these particular scabbards. If anyone knows definitively about the origins, please pass on the info or direct me to a source. The scabbard had "OA" stamped on it and I was told that was Australian.

Information

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[Flying10uk]

I've heard it suggested that the Indians sometimes used shortened 1907 scabbards with their L1A1 bayonets but have not actually seen any evidence of them having done so. "OA" stands for Orange armoury, I believe, an Australian company. I have purchased, in the past, a couple of short Indian smle un-fullered bayonets that came with full length Australian "OA" 1907 scabbards.

[22SqnRAE]

"OA" stands for Orange armoury, I believe, an Australian company.

Just to help out people's historical understanding, OA was Orange Annexe.

Small Arms Factory, Lithgow built the Orange Annexe in 1941 to cope with the high volume of No 1 Mk III* production required when Japan became Australia's prime threat and focus. Lithgow concentrated on Vickers and Bren production, while Orange manufactured rifles assembled mainly from parts made at Orange, Bathurst, Forbes and Wellington Annexes.

The (Lithgow and Annexes) Small Arms Factory was a Government facility, not a company.

Please don't take this as a pedantic rant, just helping share the history of Australian manufactured Lee Enfield components.

[browningautorifle]

Please don't take this as a pedantic rant

No, correct is correct. Here(in my city) we had an "Expert" telling all that would listen it was Orange Arsenal. You see? Now that one's put to bed.

[Aragorn243]

I believe they were made for shortened bayonets for the Owen sub machine gun.

[Flying10uk]

Yes, I've seen pictures of Owen bayos with short 1907 scabbards, if memory serves me correctly.

[Peter Laidler]

Regardless of all the why's and wherefores this combination is clearly incorrect as the No7 was issued with a No5 scabbard. The only exception to this general rule, as I understand it, was that when the L1A1 bayonet was issued with the new-issue L1A1 rifles, units were issued with the bayonets only and the No9's (and the Energa launchers incidentally.....) were returned to Ordnance scabbard-less for disposal. Scabbards being taken on for use with the L1A1 bayonets. The same happened on a smaller scale with Stens and the No7's when the L2 came on stream with the No5 bayonet.

Thinking out aloud, I think someones taken the No5 scabbard off this bayonet (thread 1) and sold it on with a cut down old No1 bayonet scabbard. I mean, how difficult is it to cut a No1 scabbard down to length?

[browningautorifle]

how difficult is it to cut a No1 scabbard down to length

Not so bad if you have the mandrel for the staples, or whatever the wire binders are called. These scabbards were made as short and also shortened because there were scads. The steel scabbards were continued in service as Peter says. The US did this too, that's evident with many of the scabbards through their issue of bayonets.

[Flying10uk]

I have shortened several 1907 scabbards to fit scabbard-less short Indian smle bayonets and I have found that flat bladed screw drivers will turn over the staples quite well. I mark the shank of the screw driver with a black marker pen with the widest part of the blade lined up with the staples on the outside of the scabbard. I then insert the screwdriver into the scabbard throat up to the mark on the shank and twist the screw driver 90 degrees. You need to pick a screw driver that has a shank that will fit through the throat and a screwdriver blade wide enough to turn the staples over and you also need a bit of judgement on how to line it up but it seems to work quite well.

If you wish to make a mandrel to fit down the full length of the 1907 scabbard, this is a fairly simple task because the metal required is a standard stock size. I made one from 6mm x 25mm black mild steel which has rounded edges and all that is required is to shape the end a little and round it off. This will do the staples on the chape, if required.

[twh]

I've got one exactly like it and always wondered how the combination wound up together. 10 years ago you could buy the metal scabbards for $10-15 bucks and the long leather scabbards were twice that so cutting one down for this purpose didn't really make sense.