sMLE No1Mk3 with no star, post-WW1 production?

[louthepou]

Hello folks,

I tried finding some info in my Skennerton book about this, with no success.

I've been going on with my life for several years knowing that the Brits moved from the No1Mk3 pattern to the No1Mk3* early in WW1, to speed up production. So gone were the mag cut-off, weight-saving cuts on the sides of the rear sight guard, windage-adjustment on the rear sight, long range volley sight (however fun that was), etc.

I've seen a few post-WW1 receivers with the slot in the receiver for the mag cut-off. I've seen a few stars (*) crossed-off with two horizontal lines. What gives... was the No1Mk3 pattern reinstated after WW1? Or what was going on?

Hopefully someone can shed light on this mystery. Why did I come accross quite a few "cancelled" stars on SMLE No1Mk3* receivers?

Information

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[Bindi2]

The refitting of the cut off meant the * was barred out. Done between the wars. Adjustable rear sights were not refitted. Lithgow actions still had the slot cut on some but not all rifles up until the beginning of WW2. The forend was still made for the cut off till the end as both rifles were in use.

[louthepou]

So this means that after WW1 some rifles received a mag cut-off if they had the slot for it?

[Bindi2]

yes The R N installed cut offs as did some other units for what ever reason. Lithgows seem to have had them installed.

[Roger Payne]

In 2011 I went up to Ryton Arms here in the UK. They had about a thousand post WW1 dated incomplete & generally knackered SMLE barrelled actions. Some weren't too bad though, & worthy of restoration. I had a good rummage through them before buying quite a few. They were approximately a 50-50 mix of post WW2 Ishapore & inter-war BSA rifles. Interestingly, the BSA's fell into two groups: 1920's dated Mk3*'s (no cut-off slot, & manufactured like that), & 1937 to 1940 dated Mk3's (with both cut-off slot & cut-off fitted). The Mk3's were NOT retro-converted Mk3*'s, & the last two digits of the manufacture date look to have been added after the rest of the date, cypher & so on. I just wonder if these Mk3's were assembled as new but using some left over WW1 components?? I suppose if the cyphers of George Vth & George VIth are different it should be easy enough in principle to tell. I must have a look.....

[owengun]

Hi Lou,

I have a 1941 dated Lithgow Mk.III with the cutoff fitted. I also have a 1920's dated British made Mk.III with cutoff fitted.

Here are pictures of a 1929 Enfield made one -

[Sunray]

As I recall, after W.W. I, the Brits went back to having the mag cut off for the same reason it was there before the '*'. The senior officers did not trust their men to not waste ammo.
"...range volley sight..." Volley fire was still done(MG's were considered arty and used this way too), just not with a special sight. The rear sight on my '42 Mk III* goes to 1400 yards or more.
"...as did some other units..." Not 'units'. The Regiments had no say in any of it. Neither did the RN for the most part.

[Eaglelord17]

As I recall, after W.W. I, the Brits went back to having the mag cut off for the same reason it was there before the '*'. The senior officers did not trust their men to not waste ammo.

Post 1909 the purpose of the magazine cutoff was actually due to how the British would train their soldiers. They would use the magazine cut-off for unloading and reloading, allowing soldiers to have a full magazine in the rifle well still being able to verify the rifle was safe and empty. Nothing to do with single loading by that point.

[newcastle]

The N0.1 MkV rifles made in 1922 and 1924 also had cutoffs.

[5thBatt]

The cutoff was never deleted during the Great War, changes were made to the MkIII in 1916 which are listed in part 1 of the LoC of 1916 & in part 2 of the same LoC, they introduce the MkIII*.
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