Fake Jungle Carbine

[Singer B]

I am looking at an auction site that is presenting a Lee Enfield No4 Mk1 for sale. It is set up in a Jungle carbine configuration (different front sight, flash cone, cut down stock, full upper handguard, padded butt plate with side sling mount). The rifle definitely shows "No4 Mk1" on the side of the receiver. Is this a fake or did they ever produce the Jungle Carbine on a No4 receiver? It is in very good condition and I think it could be had for about 200 to 300. Thanks!

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[Alan de Enfield]

I am looking at an auction site that is presenting a Lee Enfield No4 Mk1 for sale. It is set up in a Jungle carbine configuration (different front sight, flash cone, cut down stock, full upper handguard, padded butt plate with side sling mount). The rifle definitely shows "No4 Mk1" on the side of the receiver. Is this a fake or did they ever produce the Jungle Carbine on a No4 receiver? It is in very good condition and I think it could be had for about 200 to 300. Thanks!

No, they did not produce a No5 on a No4 action - BUT - during the Malaya crisis the Armourers would replace a No5 damaged action with a No4 action rather than wait for weeks for a No5 action to arrive.

HOWEVER - it would not have left the armourers shop shouting loudly "look at me, I'm a No4 Mk1", at the very least the markings would be barred-out.

Several US importers 'improved' their sales of slow moving NO4 inventory, by manufacturing 'tanker rifles', it could be one of theirs.

[Flying10uk]

Probably best to post a link to the site and or pics.

[Singer B]

Bid Fast and Last

First try at attaching a link!

[NORTHOF60]

It looks like a No. 4 conversion made up from a kit that Numrich Gunparts used to sell. I think that Golden State also did a No. 4 conversion. I love the "C.!.A." on the receiver.

[breakeyp]

Golden State Arms made No.5 carbines from No.1 and No.4 rifles. Some barrels will be roll stamped, "Golden State Arms." No importers markings.

Navy Arms West Virginia No.5s were made from Indian .308 rifles and will be import marked.

I can't comment on Numrich.

[Singer B]

It looks like a No. 4 conversion made up from a kit that Numrich Gunparts used to sell. I think that Golden State also did a No. 4 conversion. I love the "C.!.A." on the receiver.

Almost makes you want to buy it!

---------- Post added at 05:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:09 PM ----------

So if it was one of the above conversions, I have 2 questions:

1. Does it have a place in a Lee Enfield collection?

2. If so, how much would you bid for it?

[Alan de Enfield]

1. Does it have a place in a Lee Enfield collection?

I'd suggest, "not in the majority of Enfield collectors collections"

It is a collection of Enfield parts, some other parts and assembled by someone who has never been near an Enfield production line.

[mrclark303]

Is it true that a number of No5's had their bodies replaced with No4's in Cyprus?

Regarding desirability, it totally depends on how you view it, as a cheap look'a'like and useful handy little carbine, or a knock off bitsa build.

[Alan de Enfield]

Is it true that a number of No5's had their bodies replaced with No4's in Cyprus?

.

No.

But it is true that they were replaced in Malaya

Peter Laidler (the most senior British Armourer and a forum member) was there and 'did it', here is an extract of a post of his from 26th July 2008


I think I mentioned earlier that when we were doing the big Crown Agents FTR programme, it was priced (so I was told) that if 70 came in, 70 went out and if some were ZF’d (scrap) then they’d be replaced from our ANZUK (I think this was Aust, NZ and UK stockholdings) mobilization stores from the huge …., and I mean HUGE Ordnance stockpiles close by at Johore Bahru. So we would cannibalise No5’s and if necessary, send them out with No4 bodies.