Mounts for Red Dots on Older Pistols!

[Ovidio]

Hello everybody.

Has anyone here tried a red dot mount for installation on the dovetail grooves of older or non-optics ready pistols?
Is there anything really worth looking at?

Thanks for any hints.

Information

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[browningautorifle]

You mean the 3/8" or 11mm or so rings for instance? Can you put the red dot into a set of those type rings? Should work. I did such a thing.

Amazon.com : Persei Medium Profile 1 inch Diameter Scope Ring Set for 11mm Dovetail*Rails : Sports Outdoors

[Ovidio]

Thank you. I expressed myself a tad unclearly.
I meant something that would fit in the dovetail groove where the normal iron rear sight is installed.
Something similar to this one.

[ssgross]

Something similar to this one.

I was just shopping for new tritium front sights a few weeks ago for some 1911's and saw the style in your picture picture. Don't know what pistol you're thinking of, but he installation isn't really any different than fitting any other dovetail sight. Measure the dovetail very carefully carefully though. They aren't all the same. Here, for example, are some front front sight info for 1911's https://media.midwayusa.com/productd...dimensions.pdf

The key thing I found out is that the measurements you'll find everwhere are all nominal, and don't take into account cutter wear, slop when cutting, etc. For example, one of the pistols I was fitting up a front sight for was from Fusion firearms. They advertise "Novak Standard" dovetails. However, my front sight dovetail measures 0.312 at the base, and the Novak front sights are .330 nominal but have an actual measure of up to 0.340--0.345. I even called Fusion and talked to Tyler who was in charge of the production for the day to make sure I wasn't supposed to order the Wilson combat (0.300 and 60deg) ones.

The point being that these front or rear dovetail sights are not supposed to be "drop in". As such, make sure you have the correct angled file on hand! Brownell's sells a 65deg. file with safe edges. Do not touch the dovetail on the slide, other than to maybe break the edge at the opening so you can drift without peeling off the corner. I practiced with a triangle needle file and stone on a cheap solid sight I bought along with the expensive tritium one for just this purpose thinking it shouldn't be that hard. But with almost 30 thous. to remove...needless to say I bought the correct file before touching the tritium sight. It was almost laughably easy with the correct tool (and the usual dose of patience).

To double check the correct angle, measure your dovetail...arctan(2*depth/(bottom - top))...times 180/pi depending on what kind of calculator you have. Get the bottom width more accurately by measuring the base of the old sight.

[Daan Kemp]

The IPSC fraternity would know in detail. Such a mounting would place it a bit high over the bore axis, muzzle flip and holes in the target lower than sighted as close distances, the same as for scoped rifles. If you shoot only occasionally with an optic on your handgun it should work fine for many years. For close up shooting at centre of body mass in low light it works excellently.

Production optic division in IPSC started that way, with mounting plates in the rear sight dovetail. Machining the slide to fit the mounting plate is standard today.

[browningautorifle]

A friend of mine used that exact system successfully.

[Ovidio]

I went to my gun shop, but those mounting plates are specific for dedicated models of handguns. I was hoping that the dovetail would be enough…
A tad naïf, I guess.
They called my Bernardelli pistols “antiques”. They will ask if there is some chance to get the plates done for them.

[Daan Kemp]

Ovidio

The Bernadelli isn't seen in IPSC or special forces, where optics are the norm. It is in another class, relatively small numbers. Think of thousands of rounds a month if you're active in IPSC. CZ, Tanfoglio, 2011 are the norm for optics and the fittings are mostly intended for them. There's a reason you don't find dovetail mounts for optics that easily, and why mounting plates are the norm.

I would suggest the easiest and quickest way to get a dovetail mounting plate for your Bernadelli would be to have one machined to fit your gun's rear sight dovetail. A small light optic will work, there are many available in many price ranges. The cheapest should give you an idea how it works, might even last as long as an expensive one. The sight should fit in front of the dovetail to prevent the additional reciprocating mass being too far back on the slide. Check photos of optic ready handguns on the web to see where it should fit. The optic would then screw directly onto the mounting plate.

I recommend you contacting IPSC Italy to find the club nearest to you. The club members should be able to direct you to a gunsmith who should be able to produce what you require. They will probably also provide copious advice and invite you to shoot optic guns.

[FLAG] IPSC Italy - ITA
Via Tacito 10 - 00193 Roma
Via Repubblica, 197 , 25068 Sarezzo (Brescia)
ita@ipsc.org

[Ovidio]

Well, that is the result of adding a modern sight to a classical lady...
I like it a lot.
Now, I have to put some threadlocker to all the screws and start shooting with it.

[browningautorifle]

Easy to acquire targets now, with fading eyes I like to use them too.