1924 Ish BSA Commercial, South African Property Mark

[CoatiMundi]

All,
Please take a look at the markings on this BSA Commercial No1 MkIII that I recently acquired and tell me what you all think.

The only dates I have found so far is the Birmingham private view mark. The South African property mark is obvious, and it has been somewhere "Equatorial" as there is remnants of the green paint on the barrel and receiver. The right side of the barrel is London Proof House marked and is filled in with green paint.

It does have a serial matched windage adjustable rear sight and the stock, nose cap, barrel, magazine and bolt are matched as well.

The magazine has a fancy "R" stamped on it which I haven't seen before. It is Enfield stamped too.

The bottom of the receiver by the magazine cut off screw appears to be stamped Enfield. The forend is stamped "T something 19" and the front handguard is marked Enfield.

Condition wise, it is not bad, but has definitely "been around the world". It has the TDC crack and the draws need some help for sure. The forend has been nicely repaired from a split and has a cross screw installed.

I'll upload more pictures as I can. Thanks ahead of time for comments!

[Sapper740]

I'm not entirely sold that this is a Union of South Africa rifle, do you have any idea of the provenance of this rifle? The Broad Arrow is deeply struck so one would think that the U would have been just as deeply struck. I have a civilian purchase M.L.E. that was taken on strength by the New Zealand government and the N --> Z is readily apparent, as is the sold out of service stamp --><-- which your rifle does not have.
Makers stamps on the barrel groove of the fore end are common and the R is most likely one of the multitude of sub-contractors that made parts for the rifles. I have a magazine with Linley & Co. stamped on the cartridge follower.
The T on the Knox Form usually suggests 'Telescopic' as far as I know. Anyway, hopefully someone will probably come along with greater certitude than I.

[Omark]

I'm not entirely sold that this is a Union of South Africa rifle, do you have any idea of the provenance of this rifle? The Broad Arrow is deeply struck so one would think that the U would have been just as deeply struck. I have a civilian purchase M.L.E. that was taken on strength by the New Zealand government and the N --> Z is readily apparent, as is the sold out of service stamp --><-- which your rifle does not have.
Makers stamps on the barrel groove of the fore end are common and the R is most likely one of the multitude of sub-contractors that made parts for the rifles. I have a magazine with Linley & Co. stamped on the cartridge follower.
The T on the Knox Form usually suggests 'Telescopic' as far as I know. Anyway, hopefully someone will probably come along with greater certitude than I.

Your NZ marked rifle may not be a civilian purchase. Around 1911 the NZ Government purchased a large number of barrels from BSA for their refurbishment program. When they arrived they had “receivers attached”. They were then fitted to the existed woodwork. So many of the long Tom’s in NZ are thus BSA commercial actions including those from the Canadian purchase.

[Jc5]

Your NZ marked rifle may not be a civilian purchase. Around 1911 the NZ Government purchased a large number of barrels from BSA for their refurbishment program. When they arrived they had “receivers attached”. They were then fitted to the existed woodwork. So many of the long Tom’s in NZ are thus BSA commercial actions including those from the Canadian purchase.

Very interesting! Thanks for posting. Where do you come by this information about the NZ purchase?

[BurtonP]

Very interesting! Thanks for posting. Where do you come by this information about the NZ purchase?

The purchase from Canada part is documented in "Defending the Dominion", which coincidentally I've just read about.

[Jc5]

The purchase from Canada part is documented in "Defending the Dominion", which coincidentally I've just read about.

Yes, it is documented in that book that Canada sold 15,000 MK I rifles to NZ in 1913, but there is no mention of BSA or of the barrels having actions attached. I'm eager to know where I can learn more about that. Thanks!

[Sapper740]

Your NZ marked rifle may not be a civilian purchase. Around 1911 the NZ Government purchased a large number of barrels from BSA for their refurbishment program. When they arrived they had “receivers attached”. They were then fitted to the existed woodwork. So many of the long Tom’s in NZ are thus BSA commercial actions including those from the Canadian purchase.

Interesting. Although my M.L.E. was taken on strength by the New Zealand government I don't think it was ever issued for general service, it's simply in too good of a shape, both the metalwork and the furniture. It has an AJ Parker Twin Zero sight mounted using a No. SP3 mounting plate which wouldn't be installed on a rifle issued to troops. It was rebarrelled in 1929 and then again only two years later suggesting it was used significantly during that time and with no war ongoing, target shooting must have been what caused the wear.

[CoatiMundi]

Here are pictures of both sides of the receiver and barrel.

Took it to the range today and it functions perfectly. Steel at 100 yards is no problem.

I included a picture if the rear sight. Does anyone know what the cog wheel with a "T" in the center represents?

Also, the receiver does not have any numbers on the flat rear part. It has a stylized "A" on the right side.

[Mk VII]

It's a mark found on Lithgow-produced components.

Does anyone know what the cog wheel with a "T" in the center represents?

[Daan Kemp]

I don't see the ownership except the broad arrow. What am I missing?