Israeli No.4(T)

[Blimey]

Hi there - this is my first posting.

I have recently received a 1942 No.4(T) which could be an authentic Israeli. It feels about right for an Israeli rifle but I can't find any information to compare it with.


The seller told me that the rifle was one of the pre-1948 303's "borrowed" from the British and altered in the fledgling Haganagh cottage industry. All the original British markings have been removed and the original scope has been removed & replaced by an Israeli scope. Presummably this is so the numbers on the rifle can't be used to trace it back to its original owners.

Does anyone have any information to confirm this is an authentic Israeli No.4(T) please?

Information

Warning: This is a relatively older thread This discussion is older than 360 days. Some information contained in it may no longer be current.

[jonnyc]

The scope is 100% Israeli, but I can't be 100% with the Magen Davids on the ring or body of the rifle itself. If you look closely, you can see that the 'star' on the scope tube is a bit neater than all the others.

[Lee Enfield]

Hi there - this is my first posting.

I have recently received a 1942 No.4(T) which could be an authentic Israeli. It feels about right for an Israeli rifle but I can't find any information to compare it with.
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The seller told me that the rifle was one of the pre-1948 303's "borrowed" from the British and altered in the fledgling Haganagh cottage industry. All the original British markings have been removed and the original scope has been removed & replaced by an Israeli scope. Presummably this is so the numbers on the rifle can't be used to trace it back to its original owners.

Does anyone have any information to confirm this is an authentic Israeli No.4(T) please?

I've got probably bad news for you:

Your rings/ bracket are a current repro with fraudulent markings.

The front pad doesn't look correct for either British nor Isreali - I would like to see a photo of the rear pad -

The spacing of the front pad from the receiver ring is "out of spec" for a Brit rifle - and the action appears very late for a legit Brit maltby conversion.

I think the only actual "sniper" piece of that rifle is the scope, everything else is fraudulently marked and "converted post war" as our less scrupulous friends say...

In fact I think there are fake markings on the scope cover plate.

[tappo]

I have some doubts about originality, but I'm no expert. However, normally on sniper rifles the original sight was not removed to allow the rifle to be used even without scope.

[Sapper740]

I have some doubts about originality, but I'm no expert. However, normally on sniper rifles the original sight was not removed to allow the rifle to be used even without scope.

Correct. Here's a picture of an Israeli Freedom Fighter during the War of Independence with a No.4 MkI (T) with the front sight still obviously attached.

[Blimey]

Good spotting but the rifle has its front sight....its the rear sight that's been unpinned and removed.

Bear in mind that some sniper rifles are issued without iron sights, and rely only on their scopes eg US m1903A4.

---------- Post added at 08:55 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:48 AM ----------

Hi Jonnyc - I was hoping you would reply.

Does the "U" shaped centre stamping look like an Israeli acceptance marking to you? Its hard to pick up in the photo - but its a U with a crooked tail. I'll add a closer photo of the butt marking.

[Blimey]

[Roger Payne]

I agree with post 3. I'm no expert on anything, let alone post WW2 use/manufacture of Enfields, but I have owned one & seen a few other indisputably genuine Israeli set up rifles over the years. (About thirty years ago I was given first dibs on half a dozen barrelled actions that had come out of Parker Hale's basement tunnel storage area. I looked at them all but only bought one, & even that only out of curiosity). As mentioned above the front pad looks like a repro & is not correct for a Brit/Canadian WW2 example or for an Israeli manufactured type. A quick rule of thumb check for spotting Israeli front pads is that the middle of the three locating screws was positioned higher than the two lateral screws. The rear pads are also different. A view of the rear pad area with the scope & bracket removed would be helpful in this respect. The bracket looks like a run of the mill Pacific Rim current copy, suitably mucked about with, though the scope is indeed correct. I suspect someone sourced a scope & then decided to build an Israeli T lookalike to fit round it. I sincerely hope it did not cost a king's ransom..........

[smle addict]

This rifle was the subject of a previous thread from November of 2022. Its authenticity was called into question back then, and there was a consensus from the forum members this rifle was not authentic. Here is the link:

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=77638

Unfortunately, the GB auction link in the above thread has expired, and none of the pictures saved. I recognize that rifle, and I believe the pics provided are from that auction. I recognize that weird, carved cone-thing on his deck railing and the mans shoes in pic #3. If you search GB for an Enfield sniper, he has questionable sniper up on auction. Same carved cone-thing on his deck, and same shoes.

There are a few other threads in this same forum pointing out at least three other faked sniper.

[Promo]

Sample of how an IDF scope and bracket would look like: Israeli Lee Enfield Long Branch No.4 MK1 T Rifle Scope - Mayer Antiques Collectibles